How rubbish do you expect pattern parts to be?
Discussion
Long story.
Helped a mate replace the wheel hub on his MX5 with a new pattern item.
New hub triggered the ABS light coming on, even though sensor had been replaced properly and the wiring hardly disturbed. Despite everything we tried, it stayed resolutely on.
Mazda diagnostics indicated that either the sensor or hub was faulty at that wheel, so the original sensor was then replaced by Mazda with a new genuine item.
Fault still present, so the logical assumption is that it must be the new hub that is faulty.
Second new pattern hub bought from same supplier and fitted.
Fault still present with either sensor, hubs swapped round, hubs even swapped with the hub from the opposite side; no matter where either of the new hubs were fitted and no matter which sensor they were fitted with, they indicated an abs fault (incidentally, the original sensor tested ok with the existing hub on the opposite wheel).
Mazda specs say the head of the ABS sensor should be 0.7 mm from the internal magnetic ring of the hub, with a maximum of 1mm (sensor distance is not adjustable).
When the new hubs were measured, one placed the sensor 2.7mm away, the other 5mm!
How pathetic that a pattern hub, costing over £100 (trade), is so poorly manufactured.
My mate now has the problem that he has two new (and fairly useless) hubs, an extra abs sensor he doesn't actually need and a car with the ABS light permanently on until he can afford to buy a genuine hub (he won't take the risk on pattern again).
Now obviously he has gone back to the pattern hub supplier armed with a letter from Mazda confirming their findings (Mazda have been very helpful throughout) but they say it will take them 6 to 8 weeks to investigate and examine the hubs before they will consider a refund; no mention of paying for the new sensor, the labour or even making a "goodwill" gesture for his inconvenience!
Anyone else had similar issues?
Helped a mate replace the wheel hub on his MX5 with a new pattern item.
New hub triggered the ABS light coming on, even though sensor had been replaced properly and the wiring hardly disturbed. Despite everything we tried, it stayed resolutely on.
Mazda diagnostics indicated that either the sensor or hub was faulty at that wheel, so the original sensor was then replaced by Mazda with a new genuine item.
Fault still present, so the logical assumption is that it must be the new hub that is faulty.
Second new pattern hub bought from same supplier and fitted.
Fault still present with either sensor, hubs swapped round, hubs even swapped with the hub from the opposite side; no matter where either of the new hubs were fitted and no matter which sensor they were fitted with, they indicated an abs fault (incidentally, the original sensor tested ok with the existing hub on the opposite wheel).
Mazda specs say the head of the ABS sensor should be 0.7 mm from the internal magnetic ring of the hub, with a maximum of 1mm (sensor distance is not adjustable).
When the new hubs were measured, one placed the sensor 2.7mm away, the other 5mm!
How pathetic that a pattern hub, costing over £100 (trade), is so poorly manufactured.
My mate now has the problem that he has two new (and fairly useless) hubs, an extra abs sensor he doesn't actually need and a car with the ABS light permanently on until he can afford to buy a genuine hub (he won't take the risk on pattern again).
Now obviously he has gone back to the pattern hub supplier armed with a letter from Mazda confirming their findings (Mazda have been very helpful throughout) but they say it will take them 6 to 8 weeks to investigate and examine the hubs before they will consider a refund; no mention of paying for the new sensor, the labour or even making a "goodwill" gesture for his inconvenience!
Anyone else had similar issues?
Lots:
Wishbones with bushes that failed at 3 month intervals - I bought genuine bushes and it then lasted a year and a half before the balljoint rubbers failed. The originals lasted nearly 100,000 miles.
Exhausts where the joints aren't welded on at the right angle so the exhaust hangs down under the car when fitted and that last 2 years before rusting out whereas the original lasted 9 years.
I've come to realise pattern parts are often a false economy; certainly anything rubber isn't worth buying as a pattern part as it just crumbles away after a year or so.
Edited to say that for a hub my first port of call would be a breakers yard - cheapest way to get hold of a genuine hub and you won't have the hassle of pressing in a new wheel bearing either.
Wishbones with bushes that failed at 3 month intervals - I bought genuine bushes and it then lasted a year and a half before the balljoint rubbers failed. The originals lasted nearly 100,000 miles.
Exhausts where the joints aren't welded on at the right angle so the exhaust hangs down under the car when fitted and that last 2 years before rusting out whereas the original lasted 9 years.
I've come to realise pattern parts are often a false economy; certainly anything rubber isn't worth buying as a pattern part as it just crumbles away after a year or so.
Edited to say that for a hub my first port of call would be a breakers yard - cheapest way to get hold of a genuine hub and you won't have the hassle of pressing in a new wheel bearing either.
Edited by nervouspassenger on Tuesday 6th November 23:16
In my experience...
Japanese pattern parts are crap. They usually aren't made in Japan and so are just vaguely measured parts.
On the other hand, quite a lot of European 'pattern' parts are actually made in the same factories as the OE items. I've had a number of pattern parts for BMW's and they've all been made by Eibach or Bosch or whoever make bits for BMW's.
Japanese cars are great cars, but they are a pain to get parts for, and the decent parts are very expensive. BMW parts on the other hand (particularly the quality pattern ones) are surprisingly reasonable.
Japanese pattern parts are crap. They usually aren't made in Japan and so are just vaguely measured parts.
On the other hand, quite a lot of European 'pattern' parts are actually made in the same factories as the OE items. I've had a number of pattern parts for BMW's and they've all been made by Eibach or Bosch or whoever make bits for BMW's.
Japanese cars are great cars, but they are a pain to get parts for, and the decent parts are very expensive. BMW parts on the other hand (particularly the quality pattern ones) are surprisingly reasonable.
As with anything you get varying levels of quality. Well known in Land Rover circles that Britpart for example tend to be the cheapest and most likely to fail, so I'm careful what Britpart parts I use. Then better quality brands such as Allmakes/Terrafirma and Bearmach tend to be much better, but for bushes and balljoints that I really don't want to be replacing again I ty and get Lemforder ones.
Being intimately associated with the independent aftermarket I'd say as a rule of thumb:
As the likes of Bosch have a huge reputation to lose however, you can be assured that the quality is at least reasonable and compliant to, in this case, the ECE 90 directive.
- OES parts (i.e. the BMW part that is being made by Bosch, but is being deliverd in a Bosch box rather than a BMW one) are 99.9999% of times being made on the same line as the parts delivered to the car manufacturer, while often represent significant savings compared to the dealer supplied ones. More often than not, on 'older' applications the parts manufacturer will even apply updated materials, processes that they use on the newer applications, so the part you buy is better than the one that was on the car originally
- Parts made by an OE supplier who is not OE for that specific car (i.e. a Valeo part as a replacement for a part that Bosch supplied to BMW) will be of the same quality as the ones that this OE supplier erm, supplies to other manufacturers.
As the likes of Bosch have a huge reputation to lose however, you can be assured that the quality is at least reasonable and compliant to, in this case, the ECE 90 directive.
- Parts being made and marketed by third parties with a 'matching quality' certificate SHOULD be of of equivalent contstruction and materials to the OE part. However, apart from certain product categories like the aforementioned brake pads, there is no independent testing required to ensure this is the case. It is down to the OEM or the OE supplier to prove that a third party supplied part is not equivalent to theirs and provide the resutls of their investigations to the authorities, and normally they'll only be bothered in certain cases like warranty repairs performed by non-franchised workshops etc.
- Remanufactured parts from OE suppliers or reputable reman specialists are rebuilt and tested to comply with OE specifications - and in many cases, better than the original product as known weak spots have been identified and rectified by the remanufacturer. They often represent a vastly superior alternative to cheap 'pattern' parts of mostly Far Eastern origin.
I've never had a problem with them, personally. In fact in some cases I've found them to be better than OEM. I guess the less well known the manufacturer of the pattern part, the more risk you take, but I've used lots of completely unbranded ones and they've been fine. I guess it depends on the inherent complexity and tolerances of the part, too.
Rubin215 said:
The annoying thing about these hubs is that the company who made them is a subsidiary of Bilstein.
I really would have expected them to be 100%, but apparently not.
Febi? I really would have expected them to be 100%, but apparently not.
In that case I would really inform them about your findings as this is well outside the norm for them.
It's well possible that with hundreds of aftermarket applications, there's one that has 'slipped through the net' so far...
V8RX7 said:
A friend of mine works for Land Rover - he says about OEM parts:
Firstly suppliers can change during a models lifespan secondly they were chosen because they met the minimum criteria, at the cheapest price, at the time they are not necessarily the best parts available.
True enough, but it's the OEM part that sets the template for the specification that the aftermarket replacement ones have to meet...Firstly suppliers can change during a models lifespan secondly they were chosen because they met the minimum criteria, at the cheapest price, at the time they are not necessarily the best parts available.
I don't think I have ever bought official parts for any of my cars. The Saab has had two oil changes and the air and oil filters have been MANN items from my local GSF near where I work. Never had any problems 
More complex things like exhausts can be nightmare. My mechanic told me he wouldn't fit pattern exhaust for my VFR (V4) as it would take him double time time to re-bend all the pipework to make it fit compared to a Honda item. I never went ahead with that job!
More complex things like exhausts can be nightmare. My mechanic told me he wouldn't fit pattern exhaust for my VFR (V4) as it would take him double time time to re-bend all the pipework to make it fit compared to a Honda item. I never went ahead with that job!
bakerstreet said:
I don't think I have ever bought official parts for any of my cars. The Saab has had two oil changes and the air and oil filters have been MANN items from my local GSF near where I work.
MANN is an OEM supplier to many car manufacturers and has an excellent reputation built over many decades. A big difference from bolting any old filter that fits to your car. 900T-R said:
Being intimately associated with the independent aftermarket I'd say as a rule of thumb:
I too work in the aftermarket and what is written above is spot on, but here is the problem. People want the quality of OE at "white box" pricing which it cannot ever have. The cost of car parts for the consumables like bearings etc is ridiculosly cheap as more competition has made white box goods the bench mark. There are lots of people on here who will quote buying off ebay cheaper than motor factors, they are cheap for a reason. If you saw some of the brake tests for example with a cheap brake pad against one from TRW you will see a huge differance in stopping distance, would you want your family driving in that car? Buy from reputable motor factors and stick to brand names and you will not go far wrong.
To the OP there seems to be a problem on your car. The unit origanally on there had the light problem, the two new units both had the light on, are you sure the sensor housing is not bent as it is unlikly the new hubs will have been machined wrong especially by Febi. I would measure the old hub against the new one with a gauge and look at the position of the sensor on the otherside
As the likes of Bosch have a huge reputation to lose however, you can be assured that the quality is at least reasonable and compliant to, in this case, the ECE 90 directive.
- OES parts (i.e. the BMW part that is being made by Bosch, but is being deliverd in a Bosch box rather than a BMW one) are 99.9999% of times being made on the same line as the parts delivered to the car manufacturer, while often represent significant savings compared to the dealer supplied ones. More often than not, on 'older' applications the parts manufacturer will even apply updated materials, processes that they use on the newer applications, so the part you buy is better than the one that was on the car originally
- Parts made by an OE supplier who is not OE for that specific car (i.e. a Valeo part as a replacement for a part that Bosch supplied to BMW) will be of the same quality as the ones that this OE supplier erm, supplies to other manufacturers.
I too work in the aftermarket and what is written above is spot on, but here is the problem. People want the quality of OE at "white box" pricing which it cannot ever have. The cost of car parts for the consumables like bearings etc is ridiculosly cheap as more competition has made white box goods the bench mark. There are lots of people on here who will quote buying off ebay cheaper than motor factors, they are cheap for a reason. If you saw some of the brake tests for example with a cheap brake pad against one from TRW you will see a huge differance in stopping distance, would you want your family driving in that car? Buy from reputable motor factors and stick to brand names and you will not go far wrong.
To the OP there seems to be a problem on your car. The unit origanally on there had the light problem, the two new units both had the light on, are you sure the sensor housing is not bent as it is unlikly the new hubs will have been machined wrong especially by Febi. I would measure the old hub against the new one with a gauge and look at the position of the sensor on the otherside
As the likes of Bosch have a huge reputation to lose however, you can be assured that the quality is at least reasonable and compliant to, in this case, the ECE 90 directive.
- Parts being made and marketed by third parties with a 'matching quality' certificate SHOULD be of of equivalent contstruction and materials to the OE part. However, apart from certain product categories like the aforementioned brake pads, there is no independent testing required to ensure this is the case. It is down to the OEM or the OE supplier to prove that a third party supplied part is not equivalent to theirs and provide the resutls of their investigations to the authorities, and normally they'll only be bothered in certain cases like warranty repairs performed by non-franchised workshops etc.
- Remanufactured parts from OE suppliers or reputable reman specialists are rebuilt and tested to comply with OE specifications - and in many cases, better than the original product as known weak spots have been identified and rectified by the remanufacturer. They often represent a vastly superior alternative to cheap 'pattern' parts of mostly Far Eastern origin.
Just a quick update to this.
Last week, my mate bought another pattern hub from Euro which they swore blind would not have the same issues that we had with the one's bought from Dingbro.
Fitted it last night and guess what?
ABS warning light on again as soon as the car moved.
He took it back first thing today to be told that there has been a product recall on these hubs since November last year...
Looks like it is going to have to be the 50% more expensive Mazda Genuine hub after all...
Last week, my mate bought another pattern hub from Euro which they swore blind would not have the same issues that we had with the one's bought from Dingbro.
Fitted it last night and guess what?
ABS warning light on again as soon as the car moved.
He took it back first thing today to be told that there has been a product recall on these hubs since November last year...
Looks like it is going to have to be the 50% more expensive Mazda Genuine hub after all...
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