Tarmac replacing gravel on outside of turns
Discussion
Cars using tarmac as a get out of jail free card on corner exits or chicanes makes a mockery of the idea that we are watching the most skilled drivers being tested on the most challenging tracks. It's got to a stage now that you can pull any knuckle headed move in the knowledge that you have acres of tarmac on which to recover.
I would like to see a border of some sort say, 2 or 3 car widths wide, of grass or gravel which would punish drivers for leaving the track. you can then have tarmac beyond it to slow out of control cars.
I am also skeptical about tarmac's ability to slow cars in wet conditions as cars seem to skate across it with almost no retardation. Finally, for tarmac to slow an out of control car efficiently, we have to assume the car has all four tyres in contact with the ground for it to work. In cases where, for whatever reason the car is skidding along on its floor minus wheels/suspension, tarmac will do absolutely bugger all!
I would like to see a border of some sort say, 2 or 3 car widths wide, of grass or gravel which would punish drivers for leaving the track. you can then have tarmac beyond it to slow out of control cars.
I am also skeptical about tarmac's ability to slow cars in wet conditions as cars seem to skate across it with almost no retardation. Finally, for tarmac to slow an out of control car efficiently, we have to assume the car has all four tyres in contact with the ground for it to work. In cases where, for whatever reason the car is skidding along on its floor minus wheels/suspension, tarmac will do absolutely bugger all!
Makes you laugh when these circuits are made to tarmac over the run off areas for safety and then we have the street circuits such as Monaco or Singapore. I like the street circuits because I enjoy watching the drivers having to take the car to the edge and knowing that if there is a mistake then they are out.
However saying that maybe for the first corner it does make more sense to give them an escape route should there be a collision further up the field.
However saying that maybe for the first corner it does make more sense to give them an escape route should there be a collision further up the field.
It works well . In F1 the area is to be painted with speed retardant paint ( developed at Paul Ricard) and this will punish the unwary.
At club level this also works; at Druids Hairpin at Brands Hatch the strip of tarmac has resulted in less red flags during races less damage to vehicles and less lost time. And has recduced the need for a telehandler for most meetings therefore lowering the curcuit hire costs for clubs effectively.
At club level this also works; at Druids Hairpin at Brands Hatch the strip of tarmac has resulted in less red flags during races less damage to vehicles and less lost time. And has recduced the need for a telehandler for most meetings therefore lowering the curcuit hire costs for clubs effectively.
24lemons said:
Cars using tarmac as a get out of jail free card on corner exits or chicanes makes a mockery of the idea that we are watching the most skilled drivers being tested on the most challenging tracks. It's got to a stage now that you can pull any knuckle headed move in the knowledge that you have acres of tarmac on which to recover.
I would like to see a border of some sort say, 2 or 3 car widths wide, of grass or gravel which would punish drivers for leaving the track. you can then have tarmac beyond it to slow out of control cars.
I am also skeptical about tarmac's ability to slow cars in wet conditions as cars seem to skate across it with almost no retardation. Finally, for tarmac to slow an out of control car efficiently, we have to assume the car has all four tyres in contact with the ground for it to work. In cases where, for whatever reason the car is skidding along on its floor minus wheels/suspension, tarmac will do absolutely bugger all!
There is some truth in that but regardless of anything, Tarmac is also the cars best chance of staying upright. Which gives the driver the best possible chance. I would like to see a border of some sort say, 2 or 3 car widths wide, of grass or gravel which would punish drivers for leaving the track. you can then have tarmac beyond it to slow out of control cars.
I am also skeptical about tarmac's ability to slow cars in wet conditions as cars seem to skate across it with almost no retardation. Finally, for tarmac to slow an out of control car efficiently, we have to assume the car has all four tyres in contact with the ground for it to work. In cases where, for whatever reason the car is skidding along on its floor minus wheels/suspension, tarmac will do absolutely bugger all!
The trouble is the kerbs that launch the car into the air. Once no part is touching the ground, the myriad of unknowns is what complicates things. I wouldn't be surprised if the next thing on the list to remove is the outside kerbs. As soon as an alternate method of delineating the outside of the corner and penalising going outside the boundary of track is devised, they will be gone.
Reardy Mister said:
As soon as an alternate method of delineating the outside of the corner and penalising going outside the boundary of track is devised, they will be gone.
how about a Police Interceptors style stinger behind the white line?pretty sure that will stop them over-stepping the lines...
Athlon said:
A simple (by F1 standards) sensor which is fitted to the car that knows when all four wheels have crossed the white line is all that is needed, it could prevent an up shift for 5 seconds or throttle stop the engine, simple but very effective for stopping this once and for all.
until you get someone missing a chicane and the person following them goes through properly and is right up their arse and accelerating normally when the person half a metre in front finds out that they can't upshift.what happens?
big shunt with the possibility of one car being launched. That idea will not happen.
the best option has always been the polystyrene blocks on the outside of the corners. if you drive through them, they will damage a front wing etc, but they won't hurt the driver. in a safety car situation they can be easily replaced by marshals.
I don't really object to that too much. No one wants to see drivers barrel rolling across gravel, or retiring because they're beached uselessly, in a perfectly good car, in a sand pit.
There are penalties for going all 4 wheels outside the lines, unfortunately of the pit stop variety rather than the actually losing time and having to regain it again. How about some decent sized kerbs that would provide a more natural boundary, punish over runs while retaining the advantage of tarmac run offs.
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJhwdy-J14A
Oh and why can't modern cars look that good and sound that wonderful?
There are penalties for going all 4 wheels outside the lines, unfortunately of the pit stop variety rather than the actually losing time and having to regain it again. How about some decent sized kerbs that would provide a more natural boundary, punish over runs while retaining the advantage of tarmac run offs.
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJhwdy-J14A
Oh and why can't modern cars look that good and sound that wonderful?
entropy said:
Problem gravel is that its easy to skim the surface at speed.
IIRC there was truck racing accident at thwt part of the track which resulted in a fwtality.
That's the big reason. Gravel is unpredictable, especially with sticky out bits of car that can dig in. If a car goes into a gravel trap, it might skim over the top, it might dig in and flip, or it might slow down like it's supposed to. With tarmac it will generally stop pretty quick due to tyre friction, and do that reliably all of the time with the car staying on the ground. IIRC there was truck racing accident at thwt part of the track which resulted in a fwtality.
The cutting gets ridiculous, but it's better than a driver landing on their head.
Bedford can only do it on their cars that are fitted with the system , not really practical to fit every car in every series and every trackday with such a system is it? And yes they do go wrong occaisionally .
Bedford Autodrome is not a racetrack its a great wide open area without the tyrewall and armco that more traditional non airfield curcuits have .
Bedford Autodrome is not a racetrack its a great wide open area without the tyrewall and armco that more traditional non airfield curcuits have .
mad4amanda said:
Bedford can only do it on their cars that are fitted with the system , not really practical to fit every car in every series and every trackday with such a system is it? And yes they do go wrong occaisionally .
Bedford Autodrome is not a racetrack its a great wide open area without the tyrewall and armco that more traditional non airfield curcuits have .
No need to do it on every series, it's mainly F1 where the cornering speeds are so ludicrous that the road becomes "narrow" enough for it to become an issue, and the technology is already in the car to do it - there's a jump-start sensor under the car.Bedford Autodrome is not a racetrack its a great wide open area without the tyrewall and armco that more traditional non airfield curcuits have .
davepoth said:
The cutting gets ridiculous, but it's better than a driver landing on their head.
Having landed on my head due to a gravel trap on the outside of a corner I'd like to say that it hurts, a lot, and that I hate the idea of gravel being replaced with tarmac. The idea that making a mistake will potentially hurt discourages drivers from doing stupid things and from ignoring the edge of the track, with a great big expanse of tarmac for them to drive on as if it was part of the track they'll treat it like it is.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff