joining a union
Discussion
Hi. Is it worth joining a union if the rest of the company your in is not part of one , i assume i would have the union on side if i was sacked unfairly, or h & s working issues, ( im a fitter ) etc etc, but would they fight in my corner for wage rise or holyday entitlment etc. the company im in is a privetly owned one. Any one with any experience of this sort of situation. Cheers for any ideas
On an individual level, a Union is only going to accompany you at grievance or disciplinary meetings. Where there is no union recognition or collective bargaining in place then you are on your own when it comes to terms and conditions. A Works Council might be a more approrpiate and palatable alternative.
From the other side of the table, I recognise they can be of benefit. Most of them will have advice lines etc which will help with H&S issues and employment law stuff. Very useful to have in the event of a bad sacking, the union chap will know the law better then most HR experts.
You can also opt out of political donations IIRC.
However be wary of shop stewards who have their own agenda. I've seen good men get sucked into the lure of some union leader who wants to make a point only to lose everything.
So use them for proper legal advice/representation (and not the gospel of some shop steward) if it's worth your subs. The rest of it I'm not so sure of.
You can also opt out of political donations IIRC.
However be wary of shop stewards who have their own agenda. I've seen good men get sucked into the lure of some union leader who wants to make a point only to lose everything.
So use them for proper legal advice/representation (and not the gospel of some shop steward) if it's worth your subs. The rest of it I'm not so sure of.
Having worked for a very large privately owned business where a union was not recognised at the time (I realise EU legislation has changed slightly) and now a very large government owned organisation where being in the union is expected (but not compulsory) my opinion for what it is worth is that a union is only worth while if it is strong. If you are the only member of the union you will carry no clout and therefore little point in my opinion. Hope this helps and realise that every company and situation is different.
Never thought my first post on a motoring forum would be about employment !
Hope this is of some interest
Never thought my first post on a motoring forum would be about employment !
Hope this is of some interest
Jackleman said:
It's a slippery slope to becoming ruled out for promotions and career advancement.
Why?Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
edc said:
On an individual level, a Union is only going to accompany you at grievance or disciplinary meetings. Where there is no union recognition or collective bargaining in place then you are on your own when it comes to terms and conditions. A Works Council might be a more approrpiate and palatable alternative.
We have a works council, despite their best efforts our contract "negotiations" have been anything but.I used to belong to a union in a previous job but apart from bombarding me with spam and telemarketing, they did little else for me. When the company decided to bin the project I was working on and put me back in a job I'd done two years previously, effectively demoting me, the union rep was useless. The only advice he offered me was to find another job if I didn't like it.
mrmr96 said:
Why?
Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
If you are literally just joining to have a little extra back-stop in case of employment woes then perhaps no harm, but I wonder about the motive for this?? Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
If you are one of the dinosaurs that strikes or gets political in the workplace, you would hardly have the best interests of the business in mind and therefor not exactly promotion material.
Jackleman said:
mrmr96 said:
Why?
Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
If you are literally just joining to have a little extra back-stop in case of employment woes then perhaps no harm, but I wonder about the motive for this?? Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
If you are one of the dinosaurs that strikes or gets political in the workplace, you would hardly have the best interests of the business in mind and therefor not exactly promotion material.
No, totally wrong, but that's the way it was.
Mojocvh said:
Nice post. NOT! I had to join Amicus as I would have been turned away at the site gate period.
No, totally wrong, but that's the way it was.
Yes, sad isn't it?No, totally wrong, but that's the way it was.
Of course the only way they can get many people to join is to lock in an employer like that.
As an ex employer, I would never recognise a Union and regarded anyone who felt they needed to be in one as weak and probably not worth employing in any significant function.
As far as legal or employment advice is concerned, anyone worth their salt can get all that much easier and cheaper than by joining a union.
mrmr96 said:
Why?
Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
Why? I'd view it as a statistical thing. A good staff member will be in demand, I'll be fighting to keep them. Someone who pre-emptively arranges representation for a subsequent disciplinary procedure isn't sending me a message that they will excel.Would you need to declare membership if you're not asked about it? I think joining would be a good thing, if only so there's someone there to offer support if your boss dicks you over. Not suggesting you'd need to go picket/strike/cause problems, but having paid subs they'll provide support if/when you need it.
It's similar to someone asking me how many sick days they are allowed. It's not necessarily proof of a problem, but it's not a great sign.
REALIST123 said:
As far as legal or employment advice is concerned, anyone worth their salt can get all that much easier and cheaper than by joining a union.
really, oh do tell where this mythical source of legal representation is?especially one which will give effectively unlimited cover for work related legal expenses as well as a seperate professional indeminity insurance policy with several million of cover ?
as well as a 7 day a week professional advice and support helpline
Mojooo said:
I doubt you would be able to get someone to assist you in meetings with managers for the same prices you would witt a union rep. a union rep of the same company will also knwo the disciplinary procedures inside out etc
it's also finding someone who the employer would accept as they can exclude anyone they deem to be a lawyer ( so rule out FILEx, Solictor, Barrister evenif they are really just a friend ) and treat anyone else only as a mackenzie friend rather than a representative.REALIST123 said:
As an ex employer, I would never recognise a Union and regarded anyone who felt they needed to be in one as weak and probably not worth employing in any significant function.
Unfortunately for you, you can be forced to recognize a union whether you like it or not provided certain conditions are met (min employee numbers,etc and it also a bit of a faff).Also, it is illegal to discriminate anyone who is a union member (whether that is employing them in the first place or denying them promotion due to being a member).
But being an ex-employer, you knew that already.;)
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