Asking about salary before interview...
Discussion
As the thread title implies, what's the best way to go about this without instantly looking like I'm only interested in the money?
A bit of background:
I'm currently self-employed and also doing a masters degree. I had a chat with a company today about their graduate scheme and it looks quite attractive. I like working for myself, but to be honest the security of a regularly paying job would be a welcome change and so this is something I'm considering.
After talking with them, it seems like I'd be a good candidate as I have better skills and considerably more experience than their usual hires. The problem is, they offer a 'competitive salary'. That doesn't really mean much to me. Whilst it isn't just about the money I do need to get an idea if it would be at all beneficial to give up working for myself.
Doing a bit of research, it seems a lot of 'competitive salary' for graduate jobs in this industry (software development) are around £20k-£25k. However, many other similar looking jobs are as low as £14k.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with asking them. I think it's a fair enough question, but I know it's an instant no-go as far as applying for jobs go so I'm a bit apprehensive.
So, what's the best way to do it? Or do I just apply and wait to see if I'm successful before asking? The latter seems like a lot of hassle if their idea of a competitive salary turns out to be peanuts...
A bit of background:
I'm currently self-employed and also doing a masters degree. I had a chat with a company today about their graduate scheme and it looks quite attractive. I like working for myself, but to be honest the security of a regularly paying job would be a welcome change and so this is something I'm considering.
After talking with them, it seems like I'd be a good candidate as I have better skills and considerably more experience than their usual hires. The problem is, they offer a 'competitive salary'. That doesn't really mean much to me. Whilst it isn't just about the money I do need to get an idea if it would be at all beneficial to give up working for myself.
Doing a bit of research, it seems a lot of 'competitive salary' for graduate jobs in this industry (software development) are around £20k-£25k. However, many other similar looking jobs are as low as £14k.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with asking them. I think it's a fair enough question, but I know it's an instant no-go as far as applying for jobs go so I'm a bit apprehensive.
So, what's the best way to do it? Or do I just apply and wait to see if I'm successful before asking? The latter seems like a lot of hassle if their idea of a competitive salary turns out to be peanuts...
Employment is a very simple concept really - it's an exchange of skills for money. Quite why employers think it's acceptable not to give an indication of the money on offer in a job advert, when they'd consider you a complete time waster if you didn't give an indication of your skills within an application, is beyond my understanding. I certainly wouldn't waste my time applying for a job without first making sure I knew what sort of money was on offer - otherwise I could put hours of effort into something that's never going to be of interest to me. That's not to say that all I care about is the money, 'cause that's not the case, but as a person of a certain age, living in a certain era in time and offering a certain level of experience in a certain field, I have to be sure that's what's on offer is relevant.
Asking for their range may ease it - that way it's not quite so specific. The other way of looking at it is that you don't need to know before leaving your self employed status - i.e. if you get through interview and get offered the job, they'll tell you what it's paid before you have to say yay or nay.
MitchT said:
Employment is a very simple concept really - it's an exchange of skills for money. Quite why employers think it's acceptable not to give an indication of the money on offer in a job advert, when they'd consider you a complete time waster if you didn't give an indication of your skills within an application, is beyond my understanding. I certainly wouldn't waste my time applying for a job without first making sure I knew what sort of money was on offer - otherwise I could put hours of effort into something that's never going to be of interest to me. That's not to say that all I care about is the money, 'cause that's not the case, but as a person of a certain age, living in a certain era in time and offering a certain level of experience in a certain field, I have to be sure that's what's on offer is relevant.
Definitely agree with this. When looking for jobs in the past I've always ignored those offering a "Competitive salary" as opposed to a figure, but if I saw one that genuinely interested I'd make enquiries before applying. If you're not careful then you can waste a lot of time submitting paperwork for jobs that you wouldn't actually want to take.Thanks for the advice. I agree it's a bit ridiculous... Of course I'm not only interested in the money but as you've said, I don't want to go through interviews and an assessment centre to find the salary is next to minimum wage...
I phoned them today and explained the situation and they seemed to be fine about it, but they haven't decided a salary yet... They'll be getting back to me though.
Thanks
I phoned them today and explained the situation and they seemed to be fine about it, but they haven't decided a salary yet... They'll be getting back to me though.
Thanks
This really pisses me off when prospective employers don't actually state how much they are offering to pay.
As stated above, employment is a simple deal of Salary for Skills or knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less.
Why would I go to the trouble of applying for a job where the salary might not be an increase on what I currently get paid?
I would personally always ask about the salary if it wasn't clear, but sadly, some employers take the huff with you for asking!
I've actually got as far as an interview stage for a position with a salary of £??,???.?? and then asked about the salary at the end of the interview only to be told "we aren't interested in candidates who are only wanting this job for the salary, we want candidates who want the job because of what it is"... Translation: we pay less than everyone else for this position.
As stated above, employment is a simple deal of Salary for Skills or knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less.
Why would I go to the trouble of applying for a job where the salary might not be an increase on what I currently get paid?
I would personally always ask about the salary if it wasn't clear, but sadly, some employers take the huff with you for asking!
I've actually got as far as an interview stage for a position with a salary of £??,???.?? and then asked about the salary at the end of the interview only to be told "we aren't interested in candidates who are only wanting this job for the salary, we want candidates who want the job because of what it is"... Translation: we pay less than everyone else for this position.
To be honest we'd think any prospective candidate was either desperate or a bit of an idiot if they didn't want to talk about money first. If they're desperate, then in our industry (a bit of an exception, granted) that usually means they're an idiot anyway, as obviously no-one else wants them.
Just ask. If they get all arsey about it, then you probably didn't want to work for that outfit and chances are they wouldn't be any more willing to talk about money once you were there and progressing on their graduate scheme anyway.
As a self employed person, your unsellable time taken to interview for a potentially useless job would be pretty foolish, so just ask and be done with it.
By the way - it's "not all about the money" to the employer, but in real life, it's at least 80% about the money. I could think of far better ways I'd like to spend my time if it wasn't to rake in the cash for me and my family.
Just ask. If they get all arsey about it, then you probably didn't want to work for that outfit and chances are they wouldn't be any more willing to talk about money once you were there and progressing on their graduate scheme anyway.
As a self employed person, your unsellable time taken to interview for a potentially useless job would be pretty foolish, so just ask and be done with it.
By the way - it's "not all about the money" to the employer, but in real life, it's at least 80% about the money. I could think of far better ways I'd like to spend my time if it wasn't to rake in the cash for me and my family.
jamieduff1981 said:
By the way - it's "not all about the money" to the employer, but in real life, it's at least 80% about the money. I could think of far better ways I'd like to spend my time if it wasn't to rake in the cash for me and my family.
Quite. I'd actually say it's more about the money than that, even.How many people do you recon would keep working the same way if they stopped being paid? Very few.
A job is labour in exchange for money, or things in lieu of money (pension,car,medical,life insurance,other benefits).
I do know people who like their work enough that they'd do it even if there wasn't a job attached, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
C
I have always been under the impression that salary is what normally attracts people to a role/position. Normally company ethos, the people and projects is what keeps people even if the pay in surrounding companies is better.
I would normally ask or expect to be asked what the pay scale is, other wise everyone is wasting each others time no?
I would normally ask or expect to be asked what the pay scale is, other wise everyone is wasting each others time no?
Just ask, I always ask before applying. If they are reluctant or wont tell me I dont apply, their loss not mine.
If they have the attitude that Im wrong for asking, how are things going to pan out when its time for salary review? whats the internal culture going to be like? is it somewhere you really want to work if they arent willing to reward talent or pay competitive salaries?
If they have the attitude that Im wrong for asking, how are things going to pan out when its time for salary review? whats the internal culture going to be like? is it somewhere you really want to work if they arent willing to reward talent or pay competitive salaries?
I was invited to a HR review to discuss why candidates never applied for jobs using our website.
Lots of people suggested font size, colour changes, fancy images etc. The HR person was lapping it up agreeing that a font and a fun image would make people apply.
My advice was to put £100k salary and great holidays (6 weeks basic plus bank holidays) and you would get 1000's of applicants. Didn't go down too well. The 100k was an exaggeration to prove a point but the pay on offer was good so why not state what it is.
Don't think I have ever not applied for a job due to the font used in the advert. Though I have ignored a few due to no salary or benefits being declared.
Lots of people suggested font size, colour changes, fancy images etc. The HR person was lapping it up agreeing that a font and a fun image would make people apply.
My advice was to put £100k salary and great holidays (6 weeks basic plus bank holidays) and you would get 1000's of applicants. Didn't go down too well. The 100k was an exaggeration to prove a point but the pay on offer was good so why not state what it is.
Don't think I have ever not applied for a job due to the font used in the advert. Though I have ignored a few due to no salary or benefits being declared.
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