Fuel pump and other fuelling gubbins for 650hp?
Discussion
Swapping out a small block Chevrolet that ran a carburettor to an LS7 based motor with Fuel Injection so a whole new fuelling system is required. I didn't run a swirl pot before as I could tell from the fuel pressure gauge as soon as things were getting lower than the in-tank collector could cope with.
But with FI I'm thinking of putting in a separate swirl pot and using the current LP pump to drive it. But first possible problem is thre existing pump runs 120GPH, and with the return from the fuel rails there will be a lot of fuel going in to the pot and the return to the tank is, I think, only 6mm. But any less than 120GPH and it might not keep up with the HP pump.
Plan B is I don't have to run a return from the fuel rails, I could regulate it before the rails and dead-end them.
But either way I'm going to be needing a HP fuel pump to run a 650hp engine, and these things aren't cheap! Ouch.
Any suggestions? Currently looking at one of the Fuelab Prodigy pumps, but anything equally effective and more econimical out there? Also, since I'll need to get new HP fuel lines made up, regulator, HP filter, swirl put, any decent 'one stop shop' suppliers out there who can supply the whole lot? (it may be an American motor, but I'm in the UK).
But with FI I'm thinking of putting in a separate swirl pot and using the current LP pump to drive it. But first possible problem is thre existing pump runs 120GPH, and with the return from the fuel rails there will be a lot of fuel going in to the pot and the return to the tank is, I think, only 6mm. But any less than 120GPH and it might not keep up with the HP pump.
Plan B is I don't have to run a return from the fuel rails, I could regulate it before the rails and dead-end them.
But either way I'm going to be needing a HP fuel pump to run a 650hp engine, and these things aren't cheap! Ouch.
Any suggestions? Currently looking at one of the Fuelab Prodigy pumps, but anything equally effective and more econimical out there? Also, since I'll need to get new HP fuel lines made up, regulator, HP filter, swirl put, any decent 'one stop shop' suppliers out there who can supply the whole lot? (it may be an American motor, but I'm in the UK).
Earls, Speedflow, Aeroquip, Torques etc etc can all supply hoses and fittings depending on exactly what you intend to do.
EFI pumps are not expensive. Most of the big pumps you mention claim big things but often fail to deliver, and I'm yet to be convinced about the reliability of any of them. But they are overly expensive.
Yes a 340lph would be quite adequate for your needs, although these pumps are only in-tank.
A Bosch 044 might just get you there if you actually have a genuine 650bhp.
You could have a swirl tank made to accent this in-tank though which would simplify plumbing a little, at the expense of a pricier swirl pot.
Or you could easily use a pair of pumps to supply the engine. A pair of Bosch 909's or 979's or the GSS392 Walbro's will supply more than enough fuel and wont cost the earth.
the likes of an Aeromotive filter etc would be fine. In in ideal world you'd run say a 100micron before the pump/pumps and a 10-40mic between pumps and injectors.
I guess the smaller the injectors, the more important this will be.
Ive managed for a few years with just a 100mic before my pumps and had no issues.
I'll probably re-do it all at some stage though as I know it isnt ideal.
Do not use the Sytec filters, they are far too small for your needs.
Yes you can dead end the rails, and mount the regulator and return just before them. Or you can buy aftermarket rails or modify the OEM ones for full flow. Whichever is easiest, hardly makes any odds really.
This would be the most common type of layout used. Obviously a lot will depend on what you have, what you're trying to achieve, and how much room etc there is.
EFI pumps are not expensive. Most of the big pumps you mention claim big things but often fail to deliver, and I'm yet to be convinced about the reliability of any of them. But they are overly expensive.
Yes a 340lph would be quite adequate for your needs, although these pumps are only in-tank.
A Bosch 044 might just get you there if you actually have a genuine 650bhp.
You could have a swirl tank made to accent this in-tank though which would simplify plumbing a little, at the expense of a pricier swirl pot.
Or you could easily use a pair of pumps to supply the engine. A pair of Bosch 909's or 979's or the GSS392 Walbro's will supply more than enough fuel and wont cost the earth.
the likes of an Aeromotive filter etc would be fine. In in ideal world you'd run say a 100micron before the pump/pumps and a 10-40mic between pumps and injectors.
I guess the smaller the injectors, the more important this will be.
Ive managed for a few years with just a 100mic before my pumps and had no issues.
I'll probably re-do it all at some stage though as I know it isnt ideal.
Do not use the Sytec filters, they are far too small for your needs.
Yes you can dead end the rails, and mount the regulator and return just before them. Or you can buy aftermarket rails or modify the OEM ones for full flow. Whichever is easiest, hardly makes any odds really.
This would be the most common type of layout used. Obviously a lot will depend on what you have, what you're trying to achieve, and how much room etc there is.
Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 18th November 10:53
Is your original LP pump self regulating? They quite often are and set to about 6psi.
You want a swirl pot so you can mount the HP pump below it as they don't like trying to suck.
Use a normal hp regulator after the rail returning to the pot.
On the return to the tank from the pot fit a 1mm diameter restrictor so air can escape back to the tank without there being any significant flow. The LP pump will then restrict its pressure and flow to just keep the swirl full. The 6psi in the swirl will also reduce the chance of the HP pump cavitating when at full chat.
Steve
You want a swirl pot so you can mount the HP pump below it as they don't like trying to suck.
Use a normal hp regulator after the rail returning to the pot.
On the return to the tank from the pot fit a 1mm diameter restrictor so air can escape back to the tank without there being any significant flow. The LP pump will then restrict its pressure and flow to just keep the swirl full. The 6psi in the swirl will also reduce the chance of the HP pump cavitating when at full chat.
Steve
stevieturbo said:
Earls, Speedflow, Aeroquip, Torques etc etc can all supply hoses and fittings depending on exactly what you intend to do.
EFI pumps are not expensive. Most of the big pumps you mention claim big things but often fail to deliver, and I'm yet to be convinced about the reliability of any of them. But they are overly expensive.
Yes a 340lph would be quite adequate for your needs, although these pumps are only in-tank.
A Bosch 044 might just get you there if you actually have a genuine 650bhp.
Most of the EFI pumps I've been looking at are fairly expensive, in my view of course. Just trying to look for suitable lower cost options. OK, it's not a 'genuine' 650bhp, the motor was only dyno'd at 630hp...but 650's a rounder figure to work with when speccing things up EFI pumps are not expensive. Most of the big pumps you mention claim big things but often fail to deliver, and I'm yet to be convinced about the reliability of any of them. But they are overly expensive.
Yes a 340lph would be quite adequate for your needs, although these pumps are only in-tank.
A Bosch 044 might just get you there if you actually have a genuine 650bhp.
Steve_D said:
Is your original LP pump self regulating? They quite often are and set to about 6psi.
You want a swirl pot so you can mount the HP pump below it as they don't like trying to suck.
Use a normal hp regulator after the rail returning to the pot.
On the return to the tank from the pot fit a 1mm diameter restrictor so air can escape back to the tank without there being any significant flow. The LP pump will then restrict its pressure and flow to just keep the swirl full. The 6psi in the swirl will also reduce the chance of the HP pump cavitating when at full chat.
Steve
Pretty much exactly what I had in mind, but trawling the web the cost of the HP pump, 2 x filters, regulator and swirl pot is looking at the best part of a grand, before I even look at the hoses You want a swirl pot so you can mount the HP pump below it as they don't like trying to suck.
Use a normal hp regulator after the rail returning to the pot.
On the return to the tank from the pot fit a 1mm diameter restrictor so air can escape back to the tank without there being any significant flow. The LP pump will then restrict its pressure and flow to just keep the swirl full. The 6psi in the swirl will also reduce the chance of the HP pump cavitating when at full chat.
Steve
. A pair of these wont break the bank, and will provide ample fuel for 650hp ( in parallel of course ).
Yes the American based pumps are expensive, and their performance does not justify the cost in most cases.
http://www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/walbro-fuel-pump-...
They use simple push on fittings front and rear, so you dont need to go nuts on expensive fuel lines. In fact, you dont need to go nuts on expensive fuel lines anyway, but push on makes it even easier.
Fuel filters will be pricey regardless. With some tee-ing and adapting, you can easily run a single pre-filter and a single post pump filter ( or at a push, just opt for a single pre-pump filter as I done, although in my case it was for different reasons )
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idprod...
Swirl tanks wont break the bank either. Spencer at SM Fabrications can make anything you need, and you can have it with any style of threaded or barbed fitting for hoses.
http://www.sm-engineering.co.uk/alloy_fuel_surge_t...
For most applications, expensive braided hoses are not needed and serve no real purpose, but they do add huge costs.
You should easily be able to have a 650hp safe fuel system for under £1k
Also only just noticed the drawing I posted doesnt even have a swirl tank lol
Yes the American based pumps are expensive, and their performance does not justify the cost in most cases.
http://www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/walbro-fuel-pump-...
They use simple push on fittings front and rear, so you dont need to go nuts on expensive fuel lines. In fact, you dont need to go nuts on expensive fuel lines anyway, but push on makes it even easier.
Fuel filters will be pricey regardless. With some tee-ing and adapting, you can easily run a single pre-filter and a single post pump filter ( or at a push, just opt for a single pre-pump filter as I done, although in my case it was for different reasons )
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idprod...
Swirl tanks wont break the bank either. Spencer at SM Fabrications can make anything you need, and you can have it with any style of threaded or barbed fitting for hoses.
http://www.sm-engineering.co.uk/alloy_fuel_surge_t...
For most applications, expensive braided hoses are not needed and serve no real purpose, but they do add huge costs.
You should easily be able to have a 650hp safe fuel system for under £1k
Also only just noticed the drawing I posted doesnt even have a swirl tank lol
Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 18th November 17:50
Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 18th November 17:57
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff