Daily driver on a trackday? Will I melt my tyres?
Discussion
As per title, really. I wrote a big essay, deleted it all, so now i'll summarise.
Car is a Toyota MR2 Gti, 160-ish hp. Very solid and well maintained road car, suspension in good order and very strong brakes (Carbotech pads, cant even get close to getting them too hot on the road).
Wont be very fast, bit porky and not mega power, and it might be a bit roly poly soft on track but shouldnt fall apart. I'm confident in the mechanical bits of the car.
Toyos all round. 6mm or so IIRC. They are also a very hard to get hold of size on the rear, and quite 'balloony' in profile (195/55/15 Fr and 225/50/15Rr).
So famously soft tyres. Big tall profiles. Heavyish car. Beginner-ish driver.
Are they going to be destroyed after a few hours? Minutes!? I know that its very dependent on conditions, but I'd like some guidance.
I dont want to start faffing about with wheels and tyres, as I just want to 'have a go' in the car I already have - but equally I'm loathe to spend £100+ on a trackday if the collective experience of the forum thinks that I'm going to have melted them down to the cords after 20 minutes and need to stop my fun or get a tow home/buy 4 tyres on the way home. I wont be doing any hero driving either.
FYI Nearest to me are Blyton (smooth, lower speed), Croft (smooth, but faster) or Elvington (concrete).
If we reckon I'll manage ok, then really all I need is a helmet, and i'm good to go.
HustleRussell said:
You'll probably have a reasonable amount of rubber left afterwards, maybe 3-4mm. Look after your pressures and don't do any ridiculously long sessions.
Yes, and also watch your slip angles. The car will understeer without making the squeeling noise. So don't get on the throttle too early (common rookie mistake) as it will force the car to push wide and melt your tyres.Dependent on the camber angles, you might find that the outboard shoulder of the front tyres will suffer rather than the whole tyre. Also, your brakes might well be good on roads, but a track is a far more demanding environment and many road cars, even 'sport' variants, will find their brakes run for cover after a few laps.
mrmr96 said:
Yes, and also watch your slip angles. The car will understeer without making the squeeling noise. So don't get on the throttle too early (common rookie mistake) as it will force the car to push wide and melt your tyres.
True enough, although of course you can alleviate all of these problems in one fell swoop by simply braking hard at a sensible braking point and therefore a carrying a realistic entry speed. IME the worst novice understeer is caused by insufficient braking effort and excessively early turn-in. HustleRussell said:
mrmr96 said:
Yes, and also watch your slip angles. The car will understeer without making the squeeling noise. So don't get on the throttle too early (common rookie mistake) as it will force the car to push wide and melt your tyres.
True enough, although of course you can alleviate all of these problems in one fell swoop by simply braking hard at a sensible braking point and therefore a carrying a realistic entry speed. IME the worst novice understeer is caused by insufficient braking effort and excessively early turn-in. How you drive the car will have a massive impact on tyre wear. Typically +/- 2mm wear per trackday (in dry) is about normal for me. i have used T1R on Mr2 before. I would keep close eye on pressures to best ensure even wear. The outer edges can go quickly if not enough pressure!
Try to keep to about 15-20mins on track and you shouldnt melt them! After a number of laps you might feel them start to "go off" and slide about moreand this is when they over heat and tyre wear increases. I would avoid airfields myself as the wear rate is double (or more!) and you can end up going through tyres at a scary rate. It wont end up so cheap when you factor this in (not that i would ever say trackdays are cheap!) Blyton is tarmac and will be kinder relatively.
What is possible though is your brakes will go first. the pads you got are great but what about the fluid? ideally fresh and/or higher temp stuff will help avoid boiling them and bringing things to early finish.
M
Try to keep to about 15-20mins on track and you shouldnt melt them! After a number of laps you might feel them start to "go off" and slide about moreand this is when they over heat and tyre wear increases. I would avoid airfields myself as the wear rate is double (or more!) and you can end up going through tyres at a scary rate. It wont end up so cheap when you factor this in (not that i would ever say trackdays are cheap!) Blyton is tarmac and will be kinder relatively.
What is possible though is your brakes will go first. the pads you got are great but what about the fluid? ideally fresh and/or higher temp stuff will help avoid boiling them and bringing things to early finish.
M
The airfields I go to have normal tarmac on most of the circuit. The perimeter road - the main usage area at Abingdon for example - is smooth. Only the runways are likely to be high-grip abrasive stuff and they form the straights in the main. My Westfield has done a good number over the past few years and it's still on the same tyres. Okay, so it's only 640kg and that does make a difference, but they're hardly surfaced with sandpaper!
A few points from me after reading all above.
Agree to keeping a close eye on pressures, set them at "normal" road settings & then after a session check them & drop them back. Then on your next session just build up to full speed over a couple of laps to warm them up to the same pressures. Keep a close eye on the outer edges, these WILL wear significantly more than the rest of the tyre, especially with the profiles you are looking at.
Going forwards get a very cheap set of 15" wheels & a set of 888's which are pretty cheap at this size.
Just remember you are only wearing the tyres when you are sliding the wheels!
Your brakes WILL overheat & fade during a session unless you keep the times down. I use racing fluid & pads with MUCH bigger discs & have done this to keep the fun factor in it.
Blyton is a bitr different to most ex-airfields in that it has full tarmac & is a VERY good place to start, Elvington is a REAL tyre killer!!!!! You don't mention Cadwell Park, that is near Blyton & is FANTASTIC fun.
Agree to keeping a close eye on pressures, set them at "normal" road settings & then after a session check them & drop them back. Then on your next session just build up to full speed over a couple of laps to warm them up to the same pressures. Keep a close eye on the outer edges, these WILL wear significantly more than the rest of the tyre, especially with the profiles you are looking at.
Going forwards get a very cheap set of 15" wheels & a set of 888's which are pretty cheap at this size.
Just remember you are only wearing the tyres when you are sliding the wheels!
Your brakes WILL overheat & fade during a session unless you keep the times down. I use racing fluid & pads with MUCH bigger discs & have done this to keep the fun factor in it.
Blyton is a bitr different to most ex-airfields in that it has full tarmac & is a VERY good place to start, Elvington is a REAL tyre killer!!!!! You don't mention Cadwell Park, that is near Blyton & is FANTASTIC fun.
andyiley said:
Clark3y said:
If you can't feel your tyres sliding then you need to have a word with yourself really.
I have to agree with that one.(Basically drive in a circle at 10mph and a constant steering lock, then increase your speed and you'll find the radius of the circle increases. However it's NOT accompanied by squealing tyres and smoke at first and yet the radius DOES increase. It can be quite subtle, especially for a novice track driver.)
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