Retrofit ABS/TC/ESC systems

[dvs_dave]

Very interesting article here surrounding the technicalities of retrofitting an ABS/TC/ESC system using bits from a donor vehicle.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1108_abs_f...

The liability issue is a different matter but I think one that is overblown, especially if the system is fitted with an off switch. Worst case scenario is you're back to the original braking system's performance.

Question is, what would make a good donor vehicle for a TVR...needs to have similar weight, layout, wheelbase, brake caliper hydraulic volume and tyre diameter? Z3, MX5, S2000, etc?

[GasMunkey]

I've always thought the Tvr's could do with ABS

[DonkeyApple]

Interesting concept. A 1 series maybe?

[VARLEYHYD]

dvs_dave said:

ESP & ABS good stuff

Done a lot of research, not committed yet but 'new 'can be ordered from Bosch Motorsport division with 9 maps all preprogrammed with car corner weights, slip angles etc etc plus 2 vacant & off.

Equipment is fully programmable with software provided.

Just to busy on day job, otherwise it would be on test by now.

If you want the info just mail me

G

[450Nick]

Why would you want to do this? Are you unable to drive the car in it's current state?

[GasMunkey]

450Nick said:

Why would you want to do this? Are you unable to drive the car in it's current state?

I'm not even capable to tie my own shoe laces

[dvs_dave]

450Nick said:

Why would you want to do this? Are you unable to drive the car in it's current state?

I like many others here have an interest in modern automotive systems and how/if they can be applied to enhance our old fashioned cars. People spend plenty of money making their cars go faster, but then fail to address its ability to stop any faster which is actually far more important.

I do think though that ABS with proper brake force distribution would be a good enhancement as TVR's are not the most confidence inspiring or stable of vehicles under heavy braking, especially by modern ABS enhanced standards.

The Bosch "motorsport only" retrofit ABS system is pretty cool, but it's hellish expensive compared to conventional OEM systems, and only does ABS.

OEM ABS systems these days also take care of TC and ESC so you might as well go the whole hog, as it would be an interesting exercise to see what could be achieved. Of course when you have your driving god hat on, the little "off" switch will return things to normal.

Edited by dvs_dave on Tuesday 20th November 02:29

[Graham]

emerald supposedly have the hardware built into the ecu to allow you to program traction control into it with the addition of 4 wheels speed sensors, but I've never seen the software for it.


abs will be more tricky I do know of one team who modded a bmw system to work with a couple of their cars ( 2 very different cars) but even that was expensive. It also required a very very good ( hes f1 standard in my book) driver to set it up properly in the car.


I expect a badly setup abs would be more of a liability than no abs at all !!!

[Steve_T]

If serious talk to these guys www.bornemann-bs.de Joachim had race logic traction fitted when I saw his car at Rockingham and ABS was next.

[DonkeyApple]

450Nick said:

Why would you want to do this? Are you unable to drive the car in it's current state?

Fundamentally, because it allows you to go faster for the same risk parameters.

Faster is better. It's not as if PW didn't try to get this stuff in his cars. For starters, my car had TC from the factory but PW couldn't afford the s,art ECU to run it, I could so just plugged the sensors in and I can now exit corners a little more quickly.

ABS has the potential to allow you into corners quicker.

All in, these are great systems to have access to as not everyone is a world class racing driver, not that many of those don't extoll the advantages of such systems.

It's important to remember that PW spoke an awfull lot of bks (or marketing) to cover up not being able to do certain things.

[alex_gray255]

The new ECUs on offer - both the Syvecs and the new MBE from Power - have the ability to do TC. Been looking at options for ABS, but not really seen it as being that important myself.

[Boatbuoy]

alex_gray255 said:

Been looking at options for ABS, but not really seen it as being that important myself.

That's because I've never seen you do more than 60mph Alex.

[Getsis]

Syvecs TC works well, don't see the need for any other driving aids but if it was cheap enough I would consider ABS.

[alex_gray255]

Boatbuoy said:

That's because I've never seen you do more than 60mph Alex.

No incriminating comments from me, Olly.

[JonRB]

Getsis said:

Syvecs TC works well

Doesn't for me. Absolutely bloody useless and I leave it turned off.

[lazyitus]

Surely part of a TVR's appeal is the raw elements?

Come on chaps, ABS on a TVR?? Whatever next, no alcohol over Christmas?

[alex_gray255]

That's why they invented the off switch.

It can be very useful to have occasionally, especially in the wet.

[DonkeyApple]

Getsis said:

Syvecs TC works well, don't see the need for any other driving aids but if it was cheap enough I would consider ABS.

ABS is not something I generally have need of or interest in. It's not something I ever envisage using.

But, the simple reality is that I have used ABS just once in my life and if I hadn't had it available to me I would not be here today.

I was driving in conventional manner, neither pushing on or hanging around. It was a beautiful road through the mountains, lovely open curves and tight switchbacks. Suddenly, out of the blue I was involved in one of those uber random events that just so rarely happen. If I had not had ABS I would quite simply be at the bottom of the mountain and pretty kapput.

There is no doubt in my mind that if an ABS solution were available I would have it installed with every intention of never ever needing or using it.

It is a product that takes absolutely nothing away from the driving experience, can't even be noticed in any way but may just save a life in a random event. I struggle to understand any view that a car is better without ABS as mathmatically it can never, ever be the case. It can only ever be better with ABS.

[Gazzab]

I am the worlds best driver and need no electronic help to drive like senna. Anyone who says they want it is a complete girls blouse.

[JonRB]

DonkeyApple said:

It is a product that takes absolutely nothing away from the driving experience, can't even be noticed in any way but may just save a life in a random event. I struggle to understand any view that a car is better without ABS as mathmatically it can never, ever be the case. It can only ever be better with ABS.

Quite. When the Lotus Elise V6 came joint first with the Pagani Hyarrargh in EVO's eCOTY, I don't recall them saying "but it would have been even better if it had not had TC or ABS".

All Peter Wheeler's posturing about "so don't crash then" or "Real Men (tm) don't need pansy stuff like that" was because he didn't have the cash to invest in the sort of solution that Lotus ended up with.