924/944 running costs
Discussion
The 924 is considerably cheaper to maintain. But for a 944 I typically averaged £0.38 per mile in mine whether I did 24K or 2k per annum. Some years will be worse than others though, a belt kit is nearly £100 for the belts, this will be every 3 years, but sometimes that'll be every idler/tensioner & also a water pump. That lot on a 944 will total nearly £650 in bits alone even for a 2.5 944. More for a 2.7 or S2. Labour will be on top of this. Come over to TIPEC.Net & there is a buyers guide & loas of loonies who've run these for a long time, plus Jon Mitchell who runs JM Garages working on a lot of 944s.
Not much can really go wrong with the 924 though!The problem with 944s is that they have reached a low-value point where people percieve them as cheap cars; they can be very expensive to fix if you buy a bad one. Of course, if you do all your own work then that's different, but through a specialist they are the same to run as an equivalent '80s 911.
They've also reached the age where a lot is going to need replacing; fuel lines, brake caliper overhauls, suspension, head gaskets, for example. Bodywork, whilst arguably the least rust-prone car of their era, is now a real issue, and many cars are srcapped rather than repaired. A proper restoration on a 944 with rusty sills and wings, and a decent respray, is going to cost more than the car's worth.
That said, they are better cars to own and drive than an '80s 911, so as long as you go in with the attitude that it's cheap to buy, and worth spending on as a long-term prospect, they are outstanding cars. The secret is to spend a little more on a better car, one with at least some of the expensive jobs done. TR7, above, should have mentioned that the PCGB forum is also a good source of info as well as his own TIPEC site. Often the best cars are sold within the fourms without being advertised.
To give an idea, my S2 has cost over £2K per year over three years to service on average, living outside and doing 7K miles per year. It's going in to have several thousand spent on the bodywork soon, not as a concourse car but just to deal with the rust and general wear-and-tear to the paint. It's not got loads of cash tied up in it, and isn't depreciating, so everything has to be taken in to consideration.
They've also reached the age where a lot is going to need replacing; fuel lines, brake caliper overhauls, suspension, head gaskets, for example. Bodywork, whilst arguably the least rust-prone car of their era, is now a real issue, and many cars are srcapped rather than repaired. A proper restoration on a 944 with rusty sills and wings, and a decent respray, is going to cost more than the car's worth.
That said, they are better cars to own and drive than an '80s 911, so as long as you go in with the attitude that it's cheap to buy, and worth spending on as a long-term prospect, they are outstanding cars. The secret is to spend a little more on a better car, one with at least some of the expensive jobs done. TR7, above, should have mentioned that the PCGB forum is also a good source of info as well as his own TIPEC site. Often the best cars are sold within the fourms without being advertised.
To give an idea, my S2 has cost over £2K per year over three years to service on average, living outside and doing 7K miles per year. It's going in to have several thousand spent on the bodywork soon, not as a concourse car but just to deal with the rust and general wear-and-tear to the paint. It's not got loads of cash tied up in it, and isn't depreciating, so everything has to be taken in to consideration.
Helpful post Paul...
Do you think this is worth the premium?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Do you think this is worth the premium?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
ferdi p said:
Helpful post Paul...
Do you think this is worth the premium?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
10k is huge money for a s2. Is it worth it - depends what spare cash you have and what you want to do with it.Do you think this is worth the premium?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
IMHO it would be pointless to buy this and use it daily - 5k is plenty for a really good s2 and you won't be losing money on it. This would need to be a sparingly used piece bought because you had a sentimental reason to do so or just fancied one and 10k was the cost of a big service on your 458 (I have no idea whether it is or not) so no big deal!
For a car to use I'd look elsewhere personally.
Unless you are doing a lot of work on the car yourself, you are looking at £1500 ish a year to maintain. The problem is that you see none of this back again in value added to the car.
If you can stretch to a 964 (although it is a completely different car, in many ways inferior) at least the money you put in to the car is somewhat returned in value.
At the end of the day, the best way to justify £1500+ a year maintenance costs is if you love the car. Drive a few if you can and see if you love them
If you can stretch to a 964 (although it is a completely different car, in many ways inferior) at least the money you put in to the car is somewhat returned in value.
At the end of the day, the best way to justify £1500+ a year maintenance costs is if you love the car. Drive a few if you can and see if you love them
The £10K S2 is probably destined to be a garage queen, without seeing the service history in detail it could still be a money pit if it hasn't had things replaced. Low-mileage isn't a guide to condition; it could still have caliper corrosion, the HG could well be original, the clutch is going to be original, the belts might be up-to-date but it could well need a timing chain and water pump at the next belt change, that sort of thing. It is advertised as a 6-cylinder though, so unusual and possibly unique! 
If you want a car that's going to be regularly used, and driven the way it should be, I'd not worry about miles but recent history. The more of the bigger jobs that have been tackled over the last few years the better; clutch, brake refurb, HG, suspension overhaul, major belt service can all cost £1K easily, so any of these are nice. Bodywork is likely to be the biggest cost, so if it's had work done check it's not been a quick bodge-up and blow-over. Loads of pictures and bills of the work are essential.
£1500 per year (at a specialist) is probably not far off for a well-bought car. The problem is always that you get good and bad years, so unless you are running it long-term you could be the unlucky one who gets all the costs in one or two years. When I bought mine it had a basic service and a battery, the next two annual services were nearly £6K in total. Old Porsches aren't great cars to buy as short-term prospects IMO. I see a lot of problems with people buying cheap Luxes, then finding that their £1200 car needs twice that spending at MOT time.
I apologise for sounding negative here, and I really am an enthusiast for the cars. I have changed my view of the model, though, over the last few years, as values and running costs have become so out-of-proportion. I'd say that, unless you really want a 944, or any other old, classic car, £10K will buy you masses of newer, faster, more reliable cars. They might also have problems, and might not give you the same pride of ownership, but a 944 that's constantly throwing up niggly little problems, and every service gets that call from the garage to say "are you sitting down", might lose it's shine. Of course, it will be saving you pretty much any depreciation, but that's a cost that owners seem to be oblivious to for some reason.
If you want what's the cheapest way in to Porshe ownership, with incredible build quality for the age and arguable the best driving experience for anywhere near that money, then do the research, buy a good one, drive the nuts off it and enjoy.
If you want a car that's going to be regularly used, and driven the way it should be, I'd not worry about miles but recent history. The more of the bigger jobs that have been tackled over the last few years the better; clutch, brake refurb, HG, suspension overhaul, major belt service can all cost £1K easily, so any of these are nice. Bodywork is likely to be the biggest cost, so if it's had work done check it's not been a quick bodge-up and blow-over. Loads of pictures and bills of the work are essential.
£1500 per year (at a specialist) is probably not far off for a well-bought car. The problem is always that you get good and bad years, so unless you are running it long-term you could be the unlucky one who gets all the costs in one or two years. When I bought mine it had a basic service and a battery, the next two annual services were nearly £6K in total. Old Porsches aren't great cars to buy as short-term prospects IMO. I see a lot of problems with people buying cheap Luxes, then finding that their £1200 car needs twice that spending at MOT time.
I apologise for sounding negative here, and I really am an enthusiast for the cars. I have changed my view of the model, though, over the last few years, as values and running costs have become so out-of-proportion. I'd say that, unless you really want a 944, or any other old, classic car, £10K will buy you masses of newer, faster, more reliable cars. They might also have problems, and might not give you the same pride of ownership, but a 944 that's constantly throwing up niggly little problems, and every service gets that call from the garage to say "are you sitting down", might lose it's shine. Of course, it will be saving you pretty much any depreciation, but that's a cost that owners seem to be oblivious to for some reason.
If you want what's the cheapest way in to Porshe ownership, with incredible build quality for the age and arguable the best driving experience for anywhere near that money, then do the research, buy a good one, drive the nuts off it and enjoy.
pauljmcnulty said:
To give an idea, my S2 has cost over £2K per year over three years to service on average, living outside and doing 7K miles per year. It's going in to have several thousand spent on the bodywork soon, not as a concourse car but just to deal with the rust and general wear-and-tear to the paint.
You could have bought a turbo for that.
.blade7 said:
You could have bought a turbo for that.
.An S2 with a chip is plenty fast enough for the UK, even if it lacks that extra kick that sends so many turbos off the road into the scenery. I'm a rubbish driver, so a turbo would be a very short-term car for me.
I'd echo what Paul has said above. All 944's will need money spending on them, the better ones less so. Mine is a well sorted car, however, recently I had to fork out £600 for new rad to be fitted after the old one developed a leak. Most of the work needed now will be age related, which is why low mileage examples are pretty irrelevant, you pay a premium for a car that still needs £ spent on it.
If your looking at running an old Porsche then yes a 924 will be cheaper, and a 928 much more expensive again, 944 perhaps slightly less to run than the equivalent 911, but with less residual value many owners are less likely to invest what is needed to keep the car in top condition, which imo is why you see so many 944 dogs out there.
Its a shame because to us enthusiasts the 944 is a great car in its own right, one thats never really been able to get past its VW/Audi, front engined, and watercooled origins (something which today is getting less and less relevant).
If you can find a good one they make for a great drivers car that remains incredibly practical for a sportscar and still useable as a daily driver some 25 years later. For me the extra expense of owning an older Porsche like the 944 is more than outweighed by the overall ownership experience, they are great fun to drive, can be awesome on track and make effective GT cars, whats not to like?
Edd
If your looking at running an old Porsche then yes a 924 will be cheaper, and a 928 much more expensive again, 944 perhaps slightly less to run than the equivalent 911, but with less residual value many owners are less likely to invest what is needed to keep the car in top condition, which imo is why you see so many 944 dogs out there.
Its a shame because to us enthusiasts the 944 is a great car in its own right, one thats never really been able to get past its VW/Audi, front engined, and watercooled origins (something which today is getting less and less relevant).
If you can find a good one they make for a great drivers car that remains incredibly practical for a sportscar and still useable as a daily driver some 25 years later. For me the extra expense of owning an older Porsche like the 944 is more than outweighed by the overall ownership experience, they are great fun to drive, can be awesome on track and make effective GT cars, whats not to like?
Edd
I very recently went through the exact dilemma. Had a budget of up to £15k and started looking at 911s (SCs, 3.2s) then realised that a good one would probably cost more. Certainly when you took account for running costs.
Turned my attention to 968s and 944s and spoke to a few specialists - seemed the costs were little different to a 911 and good as a 944/968 is to drive, they did not blow me away enough in that respect to be willing to want to foot some potentially large bills.
After driving all sorts of different cars (including M3s and many Porsches), I ended up with an Elise with a hardtop. Much as I will no doubt get a 911 in the future (ideally a 996RS/GT3), I didn't think that anything matched the Lotus from a driving point of view. Fingers crossed on the reliability front...!
Turned my attention to 968s and 944s and spoke to a few specialists - seemed the costs were little different to a 911 and good as a 944/968 is to drive, they did not blow me away enough in that respect to be willing to want to foot some potentially large bills.
After driving all sorts of different cars (including M3s and many Porsches), I ended up with an Elise with a hardtop. Much as I will no doubt get a 911 in the future (ideally a 996RS/GT3), I didn't think that anything matched the Lotus from a driving point of view. Fingers crossed on the reliability front...!
But you have proved how solid a shell they have.
I'd echo all Paul says adding only that they are quite friendly cars for the DIYer, bolts tend to undo and you dont need to take the engine out to do almost anything!
They are a very practical car, my 2.7 lives outside has done over 270 000 miles cost less than £1K and gets used when I need a car (2-3 times a week, I use a van for work) It goes to ASDA, the NEC twice last week, once impressing a 996 owner!
Great cars.
I'd echo all Paul says adding only that they are quite friendly cars for the DIYer, bolts tend to undo and you dont need to take the engine out to do almost anything!
They are a very practical car, my 2.7 lives outside has done over 270 000 miles cost less than £1K and gets used when I need a car (2-3 times a week, I use a van for work) It goes to ASDA, the NEC twice last week, once impressing a 996 owner!
Great cars.
Paul speaks wisely although I disagree that a 944 is better to drive than an 80s 911. I own one of each and the 911 is better
But I love my 944 it is a fantastic car that is hugely underrated and under valued. It is useable on a daily basis in a way that an 80s 911 can't. My car cost £1900 3 years ago with 180k on the clock. Now has 208k and has been totally reliable.
I would admit than mine has been abused and as such hasn't cost much and this is clearly a problem with cheap cars. But I can't think of many if any 25 year old cars that can be used daily, tracked and be as reliable. Even if I open the garage tomorrow and find a pile of rust it will have been cheap fun motoring.
But I love my 944 it is a fantastic car that is hugely underrated and under valued. It is useable on a daily basis in a way that an 80s 911 can't. My car cost £1900 3 years ago with 180k on the clock. Now has 208k and has been totally reliable.
I would admit than mine has been abused and as such hasn't cost much and this is clearly a problem with cheap cars. But I can't think of many if any 25 year old cars that can be used daily, tracked and be as reliable. Even if I open the garage tomorrow and find a pile of rust it will have been cheap fun motoring.
Fat Albert said:
I drove my ol' 944 Turbo for 3 years and 36,000 miles and it cost me 15.2p a mile in maintenance and depeciation...
I won't be able to do the same calculation for my 968 unfortunately :'(
Id be interested to see a maintenance / depreciation split J. Fuel too, although I believe that that was 24mpg?I won't be able to do the same calculation for my 968 unfortunately :'(
GC8 said:
Fat Albert said:
I drove my ol' 944 Turbo for 3 years and 36,000 miles and it cost me 15.2p a mile in maintenance and depeciation...
I won't be able to do the same calculation for my 968 unfortunately :'(
Id be interested to see a maintenance / depreciation split J. Fuel too, although I believe that that was 24mpg?I won't be able to do the same calculation for my 968 unfortunately :'(
I normally got 24 mpg when muckin' abaht, but would get around 28 on long runs, once getting 435 miles to a tankful (that cost £93 to fill up then, strangely exactly what my Wife's 535D cost to do the same miles that week)
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff