NHS attitude to the elderly
Discussion
Tough to swallow...
Got a rather distressing call from my elderly Mother last evening (90 years old). Couldn't make out what she was saying...just quietly repeating my name between very short breaths...
...because of her many aliments, fearing the worst, I rang the ambulance, then did the 15 miles in about 10 mins to find the paramedic in attendance (great people) - she appeared very poorly and the concensus was to take her to A&E, even though she really did not want to go. Ambulance crew said they would take her in for the night for obs etc.
I shut up the house, went home and had a few glasses of grape, eat my meal, rang A&E to see if all was ok (it was), then went to bed.
1am - got woken up from a deep sleep by the phone - My mother on her mobile, obviously in distress, apologising saying the doctor had discharged her and A&E had told her to leave!!!! She then broke down saying she was a burden to everyone and she would never bother anyone again.... I tried to calm her and console her!
WHATTTT!
I asked her to pass the phone to a nurse and the Sister came on the phone and said Mother was stable (what does that mean?) and my Mother needed picking up! I am over 40 mins away.
I was furious! - How can supposed care staff be so crass! It was very obvious that my mother was very distressed over the sudden discharge in the middle of the night at a minutes notice.
I remonstrated with the Sister about how they could be so uncaring for such a vunerable lady who lives on her own - but to no avail - no social assessment was done or consideration of her predicament - just chuck her out onto the streets was the inference...
...Being over the limit, I could not go to pick her up, so spent the next two hours trying to ring to obtain favours for some very disgruntled friends (well you would at 2 in the morning after being woken up from a deep sleep!)
The NHS have no consideration or heart when it comes to the Elderly do they? ...I am livid!
Got a rather distressing call from my elderly Mother last evening (90 years old). Couldn't make out what she was saying...just quietly repeating my name between very short breaths...
...because of her many aliments, fearing the worst, I rang the ambulance, then did the 15 miles in about 10 mins to find the paramedic in attendance (great people) - she appeared very poorly and the concensus was to take her to A&E, even though she really did not want to go. Ambulance crew said they would take her in for the night for obs etc.
I shut up the house, went home and had a few glasses of grape, eat my meal, rang A&E to see if all was ok (it was), then went to bed.
1am - got woken up from a deep sleep by the phone - My mother on her mobile, obviously in distress, apologising saying the doctor had discharged her and A&E had told her to leave!!!! She then broke down saying she was a burden to everyone and she would never bother anyone again.... I tried to calm her and console her!
WHATTTT!
I asked her to pass the phone to a nurse and the Sister came on the phone and said Mother was stable (what does that mean?) and my Mother needed picking up! I am over 40 mins away.
I was furious! - How can supposed care staff be so crass! It was very obvious that my mother was very distressed over the sudden discharge in the middle of the night at a minutes notice.
I remonstrated with the Sister about how they could be so uncaring for such a vunerable lady who lives on her own - but to no avail - no social assessment was done or consideration of her predicament - just chuck her out onto the streets was the inference...
...Being over the limit, I could not go to pick her up, so spent the next two hours trying to ring to obtain favours for some very disgruntled friends (well you would at 2 in the morning after being woken up from a deep sleep!)
The NHS have no consideration or heart when it comes to the Elderly do they? ...I am livid!
After several failed attempts, I managed to get hold of my brother (we are both in our 60's), and he told me he had just had a call from Mum, and he managed to pick her up! Seems the Sister was not going to be put off by my response and had called him as well!
The added issue was that I had all the house keys (taken for safety), and A&E were aware of that problem also...
Luckily my brother remembered that there was an old key-safe unit at the house, so he broke into that and found some key that fitted... Has never been used and was forgotten about... but we were not sure if the keys in it still fitted! What a hassle! Brother got Mum home for about 3am in the end!
The added issue was that I had all the house keys (taken for safety), and A&E were aware of that problem also...
Luckily my brother remembered that there was an old key-safe unit at the house, so he broke into that and found some key that fitted... Has never been used and was forgotten about... but we were not sure if the keys in it still fitted! What a hassle! Brother got Mum home for about 3am in the end!
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
whirligig said:
Not being confrontational but why didn't you go with her - just because someone has been taken to A&E, it doesn't follow that, after assessment, they will be admitted.
I agree, I should have done! I asked to go with her, but was told she would be overnighted because her sats and heartbeat were fluctuating wildly! Mum also told me to go home and I would see her in the morning, as she knows I have my own health issues.This has happened a number of times in the past.. and she was always admitted (I went with her)- I didn't think for one second that they would discharge a 90 year old lady (under this type of circumstance) in the middle of the night regardless! OK, if you are a strapping teenager or in good health, not a problem... but not someone so obviously vunerable and confused? Not right at all!
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 21st November 10:27
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
With all due respect, They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
off. They've been short of beds for as long as I remember, and the budget has been exponentially increased in my lifetime. If they wanted spare beds, they could have bought them, instead of becoming a huge bureaucratic monolith.randlemarcus said:
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
With all due respect, They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
off. They've been short of beds for as long as I remember, and the budget has been exponentially increased in my lifetime. If they wanted spare beds, they could have bought them, instead of becoming a huge bureaucratic monolith.They are constantly short of beds, not literally, but because of there being closed wards due to not having the funds to open them. They balance the staff numbers by using agency staff that also cost a fortune.
Im not saying this is right or wrong but it is how it is.
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable to discharge very elderly, poorly and vunerable patients in the middle of the night then... regardless of circumstance? They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
You also think it is right that a Sister show no compassion whatsoever considering those circumstances, and causes distress to the patient by Sister's attitude!
3Dee said:
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable to discharge very elderly, poorly and vunerable patients in the middle of the night then... regardless of circumstance? They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
You also think it is right that a Sister show no compassion whatsoever considering those circumstances, and causes distress to the patient by Sister's attitude!
3Dee said:
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable to discharge very elderly, poorly and vunerable patients in the middle of the night then... regardless of circumstance? They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
You also think it is right that a Sister show no compassion whatsoever considering those circumstances, and causes distress to the patient by Sister's attitude!
But A&E departments and/or Hospitals aren't ad hoc care of the elderly units. I don't imagine for one second they would have thrown your Mum out on the street, but once she's been admitted and treated it's time for her to go home - they don't keep wards open and staffed ready to accept people to spend the night ready to go home when they / their family find it more convenient.
Most people would have gone with their Mum, not called it 'job done' and headed home for a couple of glasses of wine, my I suggest it's time you thought about whether your Mother is still able to live independently.
When my parents, both of whom have died in the last two years, reached the stage where they might have been hospitalised at a moment's noticed I stopped drinking in case I would have to dash to their bedside 200 miles away - twice I've had to, once I was in time, once I was too late.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would send their mother to A&E in an ambulance then go home and neck a few glasses. How can people care so little for their parents and then have the nerve to complain at the actions of others?
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would send their mother to A&E in an ambulance then go home and neck a few glasses. How can people care so little for their parents and then have the nerve to complain at the actions of others?
P-Jay said:
I'm sorry about what happened to you and your Mum.
But A&E departments and/or Hospitals aren't ad hoc care of the elderly units. I don't imagine for one second they would have thrown your Mum out on the street, but once she's been admitted and treated it's time for her to go home - they don't keep wards open and staffed ready to accept people to spend the night ready to go home when they / their family find it more convenient.
Most people would have gone with their Mum, not called it 'job done' and headed home for a couple of glasses of wine, my I suggest it's time you thought about whether your Mother is still able to live independently.
This sums it up, there is a constant demand on any emergency department 24hr. If well/stable then no admission, treat and release.But A&E departments and/or Hospitals aren't ad hoc care of the elderly units. I don't imagine for one second they would have thrown your Mum out on the street, but once she's been admitted and treated it's time for her to go home - they don't keep wards open and staffed ready to accept people to spend the night ready to go home when they / their family find it more convenient.
Most people would have gone with their Mum, not called it 'job done' and headed home for a couple of glasses of wine, my I suggest it's time you thought about whether your Mother is still able to live independently.
BadRotorFinger said:
P-Jay said:
I'm sorry about what happened to you and your Mum.
But A&E departments and/or Hospitals aren't ad hoc care of the elderly units. I don't imagine for one second they would have thrown your Mum out on the street, but once she's been admitted and treated it's time for her to go home - they don't keep wards open and staffed ready to accept people to spend the night ready to go home when they / their family find it more convenient.
Most people would have gone with their Mum, not called it 'job done' and headed home for a couple of glasses of wine, my I suggest it's time you thought about whether your Mother is still able to live independently.
This sums it up, there is a constant demand on any emergency department 24hr. If well/stable then no admission, treat and release.But A&E departments and/or Hospitals aren't ad hoc care of the elderly units. I don't imagine for one second they would have thrown your Mum out on the street, but once she's been admitted and treated it's time for her to go home - they don't keep wards open and staffed ready to accept people to spend the night ready to go home when they / their family find it more convenient.
Most people would have gone with their Mum, not called it 'job done' and headed home for a couple of glasses of wine, my I suggest it's time you thought about whether your Mother is still able to live independently.
It's a bad situation all round but the hospital was in the right.
However, there are ways of delivering difficult messages and maybe the staff were at the end of a busy shift and could have handled it more sensitively. Ultimately I would imagine they would never just turf out a vulnerable adult with just their jimmies on and some busfare home.
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
Have to say, this man is right. Admission to A&E is not admission to the wards. They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
Before I read the replies, I was quite shocked to read the OP had chosen to go home, and not to A&E with his mum
Edited by fatboy b on Wednesday 21st November 21:38
Mixed views on this, I certainly would have gone with her but if the paramedic was very clear that she would be admitted I'd have been influenced by that. It seems quite likely to me that an elderly lady who lives alone and has a number of medical conditions is not likely to be well enough to be discharged to her own home that evening and given that I'm likely to be working out how I'm going to manage this scenario over the next couple of weeks I might not have gone.
My Dad is a little bit younger and I've refused to take him home from A&E in the past, in my experience A&E departments (and wards generally) are overly keen to get patients out the door and after you've been through it a couple of times it becomes an issue. I understand their resource issues but my concern in that scenario is my elderly parent. The last time Dad was in, he had significant pain in his hip - he's had four hip replacements so it's fair to say he's "complex". He had got to a point where he couldn't sit down before he would allow me to take him to A&E (I tried...) and at that stage he was in so much difficulty that he couldn't sit down so he had to be an ambulance admission. He was xrayed and we were told that he had a broken bone in his hip but that they would be sending him home with some pain relief. No treatment and this was a man who at that point couldn't do anything other than lay still so how on earth was I going to manage him at home?
It gets long and involved but after quite a lot of discussion (calm and quiet...) he was admitted to a ward for further tests and ultimately after a CT scan he was diagnosed with two slipped discs which were sitting on the L3 nerve. The original diagnosis was confirmed to be wrong.
IME hospitals are very keen to turf people out - especially the elderly when it is entirely not in their bests interests. We live with Dad and are here to look after him but for someone living alone there is often a real physical risk in discharging early.
Hope your Mum is doing OK OP and that you've managed to get a decent care plan in place for her.
My Dad is a little bit younger and I've refused to take him home from A&E in the past, in my experience A&E departments (and wards generally) are overly keen to get patients out the door and after you've been through it a couple of times it becomes an issue. I understand their resource issues but my concern in that scenario is my elderly parent. The last time Dad was in, he had significant pain in his hip - he's had four hip replacements so it's fair to say he's "complex". He had got to a point where he couldn't sit down before he would allow me to take him to A&E (I tried...) and at that stage he was in so much difficulty that he couldn't sit down so he had to be an ambulance admission. He was xrayed and we were told that he had a broken bone in his hip but that they would be sending him home with some pain relief. No treatment and this was a man who at that point couldn't do anything other than lay still so how on earth was I going to manage him at home?
It gets long and involved but after quite a lot of discussion (calm and quiet...) he was admitted to a ward for further tests and ultimately after a CT scan he was diagnosed with two slipped discs which were sitting on the L3 nerve. The original diagnosis was confirmed to be wrong.
IME hospitals are very keen to turf people out - especially the elderly when it is entirely not in their bests interests. We live with Dad and are here to look after him but for someone living alone there is often a real physical risk in discharging early.
Hope your Mum is doing OK OP and that you've managed to get a decent care plan in place for her.
Edited by Piglet on Wednesday 21st November 22:02
longshot said:
I can, in a way, see why you are annoyed but if your mum was considered to be healthy enough to be discharged, they would discharge her.
They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
Wise words. I'd request a delete of the thread.They can't put her in a bed for the night if she is ok because hospitals are always critically short of beds due to cutbacks.
All I know is if my mum was going to A&E, I'd be going there too.
If I were you, I'd delete this thread. No good will come of it.
Piglet said:
Mixed views on this, I certainly would have gone with her but if the paramedic was very clear that she would be admitted I'd have been influenced by that. It seems quite likely to me that an elderly lady who lives alone and has a number of medical conditions is not likely to be well enough to be discharged to her own home that evening and given that I'm likely to be working out how I'm going to manage this scenario over the next couple of weeks I might not have gone.
My Dad is a little bit younger and I've refused to take him home from A&E in the past, in my experience A&E departments (and wards generally) are overly keen to get patients out the door and after you've been through it a couple of times it becomes an issue. I understand their resource issues but my concern in that scenario is my elderly parent. The last time Dad was in, he had (what appeared to be) significant pain in his hip - he's had four hip replacements so it's fair to say he's "complex". He had got to a point where he couldn't sit down before he would allow me to take him to A&E (I tried...) and at that stage he was in so much difficulty that he couldn't sit down so he had to be an ambulance admission. He was xrayed and we were told that he had a broken bone in his hip but that they would be sending him home with some pain relief. No treatment and this was a man who at that point couldn't do anything other than lay still so how on earth was I going to manage him at home?
It gets long and involved but after quite a lot of discussion (calm and quiet...) he was admitted to a ward for further tests and ultimately after a CT scan he was diagnosed with two slipped discs which were sitting on the L3 nerve. The original diagnosis was confirmed to be wrong.
IME hospitals are very keen to turf people out - especially the elderly when it is entirely not in their bests interests. We live with Dad and are here to look after him but for someone living alone there is often a real physical risk in discharging early.
Hope your Mum is doing OK OP and that you've managed to get a decent care plan in place for her.
Paramedic would of said admittance to A/E emergency dept, once injury/illness resolved or stabilised till further referral, a patient will be sent home when appropriate. How extensive is your experience of the elderly being turfed out of ward or emergency dept? I suspect it differs from mine. My Dad is a little bit younger and I've refused to take him home from A&E in the past, in my experience A&E departments (and wards generally) are overly keen to get patients out the door and after you've been through it a couple of times it becomes an issue. I understand their resource issues but my concern in that scenario is my elderly parent. The last time Dad was in, he had (what appeared to be) significant pain in his hip - he's had four hip replacements so it's fair to say he's "complex". He had got to a point where he couldn't sit down before he would allow me to take him to A&E (I tried...) and at that stage he was in so much difficulty that he couldn't sit down so he had to be an ambulance admission. He was xrayed and we were told that he had a broken bone in his hip but that they would be sending him home with some pain relief. No treatment and this was a man who at that point couldn't do anything other than lay still so how on earth was I going to manage him at home?
It gets long and involved but after quite a lot of discussion (calm and quiet...) he was admitted to a ward for further tests and ultimately after a CT scan he was diagnosed with two slipped discs which were sitting on the L3 nerve. The original diagnosis was confirmed to be wrong.
IME hospitals are very keen to turf people out - especially the elderly when it is entirely not in their bests interests. We live with Dad and are here to look after him but for someone living alone there is often a real physical risk in discharging early.
Hope your Mum is doing OK OP and that you've managed to get a decent care plan in place for her.
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