was it me or the car doing it wrong?

[siwil1]

I involuntarily went off road last night in our series 1 Freelander ( I know not a proper 4x4 etc etc)

It was up to its Axle's in wet mud and wouldnt move back or forwards but what was apparent was only the front wheels were spinning, Do I have to do anything to engage 4wd (i thought it happened automatically)or do I have a problem with the drivetrain?

any checks I can do without getting stuck again?

Thanks

[ed1983]

Are you sure either of the rear wheels were not moving?? As the diff will spin the wheel with the least resistance.

Either that or the viscous coupling could be knackered.

[siwil1]

To be fair I could only see the drivers side as the other side was in a bush

[camel_landy]

Nope, the Freelander is permanent 4x4, you don't have to engage anything.

Silly question but have you checked that you have a rear prop shaft??? It is not uncommon for owners to remove the rear prop shaft as a cheap fix for a knackered VC or IRD unit.

ed1983 said:

Either that or the viscous coupling could be knackered.

Nah... If the VC is knackered, it locks solid.

M

[siwil1]

It does have a rear propshaft as far as I can remember, can I do anything to check the vcu, rather than locking could it fail to lock up?

[camel_landy]

siwil1 said:

It does have a rear propshaft as far as I can remember, can I do anything to check the vcu, rather than locking could it fail to lock up?

Nope... It'll lock solid.

Unless you're certain, you might want to just double check for that rear prop.

M

[A.J.M]

Tbh, if your upto the axels then it wouldn't really matter, if your stuck, your stuck.

I would check the propshafts, also google VCU tests and try some of them. You can get a reconditioned one from bell engineering for £2-300.

Also what tyres do you have? Good ones or cheap budget no names?
I had a set of synchrones on mine when I owned it, I never got stuck as they were very good tyres.

[siwil1]

camel_landy said:

Nope... It'll lock solid.

Unless you're certain, you might want to just double check for that rear prop.

M

Well from your garage (v.nice btw) It looks like you have experience of this, One question if you dont mind .. if the vcu is locked up how would I notice this in day to day driving, This is my first 4x4 so nothing to compare against.

Also if locked then surely all 4 wheels would have spun or have I got it wrong ? and yes sorry thats 2 questions !

[cmsapms]

siwil1 said:

Also if locked then surely all 4 wheels would have spun or have I got it wrong ? and yes sorry thats 2 questions !

If your VC's working then it will lock (partially) the front & rear axles together. However, you still have open diffs in both axles. So, it's perfectly possible to have only one wheel turning on each axle. Despite what the brochure said, you've actually bought a 2wd vehicle

I'm sure the camel (above) is correct about FL1 VC failure mode ie locked; but, if all the viscous fluid has leaked out (as happens with, among others, Ford VCs) it'll act as an open coupling and you could potentially have just one wheel doing all the work.

Testing them is a case of chocking three wheels, jacking up the fourth and seeing if you need quite a bit of force to turn it - make sure it's in neutral with the h/brake off.

[camel_landy]

siwil1 said:

If the vcu is locked up how would I notice this in day to day driving...

There's a good chance that you might not actually notice on day-to-day driving. The VCU is there to compensate for the slight difference in speed between the front & rear axles. The Freelander is designed so that there is a small difference as this helps with the handling.

If the VCU has seized then you tend to get excessive tyre wear but it can also lead to premature failure of the IRD unit (the gearbox that does the splitting of power to the rear).

There are ways of testing by jacking car up, etc... But the easy way is to just mark either side of the VCU with tippex (obviously make sure these marks are in line), go for a drive and see if these marks have moved.

siwil1 said:

Also if locked then surely all 4 wheels would have spun or have I got it wrong ? and yes sorry thats 2 questions !

No, you won't get all 4x wheels spinning. You will have power delivered to both the front & rear axles but you don't end up with all 4x wheels spinning.

To understand why, you need to understand a bit about differentials... i.e. They will transmit the power to the path of least resistance. At a basic level, think of your old MK2 Escort... If you lift one of its back wheels in the air and apply the power, all that's going to happen is that you spin the wheel that's in the air.

In your situation, the wheel that you didn't see spinning may well have been the wheel with grip (resistance), so the power naturally just ended up getting put through the other wheel as that was the 'path of least resistance'.

However... I would have expected traction control to have started doing it's 'thing' and stopped the spinning wheel, so that the power could be sent to the other wheel.

Make sense??

M

[siwil1]

Thanks for that, very informative.

Looks like i'm under the car on my day off this week with a bottle of tippex ! or trying to find a rear prop !


In answer to the tyres question It has General Grabber uhp which I believe to be very road biased and totally crap off road, which to be fair suits 99% of its driving as the car is really only used for carting football stuff, muddy players and the dogs around. The furthest it usually goes off road is a muddy car park and the occasional wet field.

[A.J.M]

siwil1 said:

In answer to the tyres question It has General Grabber uhp which I believe to be very road biased and totally crap off road,

Your answer to the problem. Tyre's.
It sounds like your transmission is working fine, the tyre's would have been giving little or no grip so that's why you were stuck.
The traction control is a yellow light below the fuel gauge, did that flash or remain off?

[siwil1]

That was flashing away merrily !

[A.J.M]

siwil1 said:

That was flashing away merrily !

Ok, well it was working fine then.
From 3 1/2 years of freeby 1 driving, i found that if it could find grip from 1 wheel, be it on snow, icey road or mud etc, then it would be able to slowly drag itself forward.
Mine was only ever defeated twice, both times with rubbish tyres on. Once on a off road course trying to climb a very steep muddy hill, 2nd time when i dropped a wheel into a shallow ditch one winter's morning. The car went into a tripod and the 3 wheels in contact couldn't find any grip. Had to get the tractor from work to get it out as a disco3, defender and a trooper all couldn't find the grip on the ice to pull it free.

In future, i would try and avoid really muddy area's if you don't wish to change tyres.

[siwil1]

Well after a productive morning I have repaired the wing mirror,pulled most of the dent out of the door and checked I have a rear prop shaft (I Do) I also checked as per above and the VCU appears to be working as after a drive my marks didnt line up anymore.

so it looks like some decent mud tyres may well have saved me.

Thanks for all the advice and explanations, much appreciated

[camel_landy]

...or stick with what you've got and just chalk it up to experience.

I mean, these cars are great but they can't break the rules of Physics.

M