Mercedes still make 6.0 v12s yet Clio RS is a turbo auto?
Mercedes still make 6.0 v12s yet Clio RS is a turbo auto?
Author
Discussion

Benbay001

Original Poster:

5,893 posts

187 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
As per title really.
What part of crooked emissions laws allow this? Crazy!

minimalist

1,516 posts

235 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
Big Mercedes V8s are sold to people who aren't overly concerned with higher road tax or economy figures.

CBR JGWRR

6,585 posts

179 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
Because a 6.0 v12 can be made to meet emissions regulations*

( * given enough money)

And the above.

GroundEffect

13,864 posts

186 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
Benbay001 said:
As per title really.
What part of crooked emissions laws allow this? Crazy!
Who would buy a Clio that was £1030 to tax in its first year then £475 after? That's what a C63 AMG is.

Benbay001

Original Poster:

5,893 posts

187 months

Thursday 29th November 2012
quotequote all
GroundEffect said:
Who would buy a Clio that was £1030 to tax in its first year then £475 after? That's what a C63 AMG is.
I wasnt suggesting that the next gen clio Rs should have a 6 liter v12, merely wondering why an n/a 2.0 is near impossible to pass emissions tests when a 6 liter v12 can?

BlueMR2

9,466 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th November 2012
quotequote all
Auto's can skew the figures as they can have a differen't shift pattern and turbos can help as well.

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

187 months

Thursday 29th November 2012
quotequote all
Benbay001 said:
GroundEffect said:
Who would buy a Clio that was £1030 to tax in its first year then £475 after? That's what a C63 AMG is.
I wasnt suggesting that the next gen clio Rs should have a 6 liter v12, merely wondering why an n/a 2.0 is near impossible to pass emissions tests when a 6 liter v12 can?
Both can easily pass emissions tests but no-one buying a V12 Mercedes cares if it's in band M or band F. People buying hot hatches do.

Dusty964

7,369 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th November 2012
quotequote all
I'm not convinced that they only look at the UK market when they design these things.

Benbay001

Original Poster:

5,893 posts

187 months

Thursday 29th November 2012
quotequote all
Caulkhead said:
People buying hot hatches do.
Genuinely surprised.

tyranical

927 posts

220 months

Friday 30th November 2012
quotequote all
You are comparing cars that are so different they are almost incomparable.

A V12 mercedes is not aimed at a mass market to be mass produced and to sell thousands and thousands, it appeals to a select number of people who have plenty of money and fuel economy/tax is not on their list of things to care about, nor is the cost of the car itself.

A renault clio is designed for the mass market, it is designed to be affordable to everyone and part of being affordable is to have reasonable running costs which means a car that is cheap to tax and is capable of excellent fuel economy (For the power available) is highly desireable to alot of people.

It is no secret that the days of N/A engines in mass produced cars are numbered, all core manufacturers are going that way even with their non hot hatch models. We will always have N/A engines in those few special cars, but your average cars will all be charged within a few years.

After_Shock

8,751 posts

250 months

Friday 30th November 2012
quotequote all
Costs, plain and simple.

Renault aint having a great time at the moment sales wise, the 2.0 engine to add to the issue is old. To totally re-engineer it to get the emissions down and fuel consumption improved significantly would cost too much for what they could return selling the cars.

If Honda had to can the V-tec for the same reason and they coudlnt afford it Renault has no hope at all to do the same with an old engine.

The 1.6 engine is in the parts bin from Nissan so nice and cheap, the auto helps massage the CO2 figures.

Simple economics from within a car company im afraid.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

220 months

Friday 30th November 2012
quotequote all
Benbay001 said:
GroundEffect said:
Who would buy a Clio that was £1030 to tax in its first year then £475 after? That's what a C63 AMG is.
I wasnt suggesting that the next gen clio Rs should have a 6 liter v12, merely wondering why an n/a 2.0 is near impossible to pass emissions tests when a 6 liter v12 can?
It's not about passing or failing but banding in terms of Co2 and how it does against the fuel economy test. At the moment you can get a turbo engine to perform better at these tests, even if it's no better in real world use.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

220 months

Friday 30th November 2012
quotequote all
Dusty964 said:
I'm not convinced that they only look at the UK market when they design these things.
Quite right. A V12 Merc will be aimed at the US and Asian markets too, where frankly big engines are more the norm. Renault don't sell anything in the USA.

Dusty964

7,369 posts

220 months

Friday 30th November 2012
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Dusty964 said:
I'm not convinced that they only look at the UK market when they design these things.
Quite right. A V12 Merc will be aimed at the US a
and Asian markets too, where frankly big engines are more the norm. Renault don't sell anything in the USA.
Having been in Dubai for two years, you see a hell of a lot more E/S/CL/G class than you do clios.

Mind you, petrol is only 'not very much at all', so no one really cares!