Ultima Upgraded Clutch
Discussion
I spent the extra getting the upgraded clutch and when it got here I sort of figured looking at the clutch it wouldn't hold much and I was right. Put the car on the dyno today and found that it just fried the clutch on about 30% throttle at 3000rpm making 300rwhp.
I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
02PRUV said:
I spent the extra getting the upgraded clutch and when it got here I sort of figured looking at the clutch it wouldn't hold much and I was right. Put the car on the dyno today and found that it just fried the clutch on about 30% throttle at 3000rpm making 300rwhp.
I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
What box was the clutch for?I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
Storer said:
I have the Factory uprated clutch on my G50/52 and had no problems on the rolling road or track.
Richard told me it was the same one they use on the 720hp car.
I would check that the slave is allowing the full pressure of the spring on the friction plate.
Paul
I have checked the fork with my fingers. It's not holding the pressure plate off at all.Richard told me it was the same one they use on the 720hp car.
I would check that the slave is allowing the full pressure of the spring on the friction plate.
Paul
I'd say this engine in my car makes a little bit more torque than an American Speed 720hp engine. Mine made 750hp and 800ft/lb of torque with a 750 Holley on it to test it on the engine dyno. That Holley is why too small for this size engine. So with the EFI the engine builder said it's an 800hp engine easy. Who knows if it would make more torque as well. Remember it's 440ci with the biggest heads you can get and one of the biggest cams to suit. It's no LS7.
(And I remember people saying a while ago, an AS 720hp is more like a 600hp engine. If this is the case then there is a massive difference between mine and an AS. Will find out soon if this is fact once we dyno my mates GTR with an AS engine.)
02PRUV said:
I have checked the fork with my fingers. It's not holding the pressure plate off at all.
I'd say this engine in my car makes a little bit more torque than an American Speed 720hp engine. Mine made 750hp and 800ft/lb of torque with a 750 Holley on it to test it on the engine dyno. That Holley is why too small for this size engine. So with the EFI the engine builder said it's an 800hp engine easy. Who knows if it would make more torque as well. Remember it's 440ci with the biggest heads you can get and one of the biggest cams to suit. It's no LS7.
(And I remember people saying a while ago, an AS 720hp is more like a 600hp engine. If this is the case then there is a massive difference between mine and an AS. Will find out soon if this is fact once we dyno my mates GTR with an AS engine.)
There is no denying the factory 720 makes a lot more than 300rwhp.I'd say this engine in my car makes a little bit more torque than an American Speed 720hp engine. Mine made 750hp and 800ft/lb of torque with a 750 Holley on it to test it on the engine dyno. That Holley is why too small for this size engine. So with the EFI the engine builder said it's an 800hp engine easy. Who knows if it would make more torque as well. Remember it's 440ci with the biggest heads you can get and one of the biggest cams to suit. It's no LS7.
(And I remember people saying a while ago, an AS 720hp is more like a 600hp engine. If this is the case then there is a massive difference between mine and an AS. Will find out soon if this is fact once we dyno my mates GTR with an AS engine.)
Something is not right if the clutch let go at only 300rwhp. The standard clutch on my C2 Getrag lasted upto 4700rpm and 700lb/ft. I now run a triple plate organic in my 996 turbo box.
Regards Dave
CanAm Dave said:
There is no denying the factory 720 makes a lot more than 300rwhp.
Something is not right if the clutch let go at only 300rwhp. The standard clutch on my C2 Getrag lasted upto 4700rpm and 700lb/ft. I now run a triple plate organic in my 996 turbo box.
Regards Dave
I know what your saying but this upgraded clutch is a 9" single plate organic clutch with 3000lbs clamping force. Do you really see that holding 720hp? I don't.Something is not right if the clutch let go at only 300rwhp. The standard clutch on my C2 Getrag lasted upto 4700rpm and 700lb/ft. I now run a triple plate organic in my 996 turbo box.
Regards Dave
Ultima factory said:
02PRUV said:
I spent the extra getting the upgraded clutch and when it got here I sort of figured looking at the clutch it wouldn't hold much and I was right. Put the car on the dyno today and found that it just fried the clutch on about 30% throttle at 3000rpm making 300rwhp.
I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
Remember the Ultima is a very light car, until it is lashed down on a rolling road! I hope Albins get this gearbox happening for me soon
I'm sure the clutch might hold on the street with being a light car, but without having an engine/ecu package that's already tuned you can't test that out either. Need it tuned before I can give it a hit on the street.
Strapping down the car on a dyno is hardly what you have with an ultima on the road. So I agree with the factory that there is not much sense
in installing a 20k-30k gear box and clutch that will take the stress that only can be achieved on a dyno run. Slick tires in racing applications sure
is another story, but I think we should exclude this from this discussion.
I have no experience or knowledge how important the strapping is to achieve max torque/HP while tuning the engine. I did most of the mapping while driving the car and I am pretty sure that I have not achieved max torque/HP but I could not care less, since it is always enough !!!
I am thinking of visiting a rolling road next year to see if my mapping was any good.
I understand that not strapping down the car will result in slip and ruin your tires on the dyno ?
in installing a 20k-30k gear box and clutch that will take the stress that only can be achieved on a dyno run. Slick tires in racing applications sure
is another story, but I think we should exclude this from this discussion.
I have no experience or knowledge how important the strapping is to achieve max torque/HP while tuning the engine. I did most of the mapping while driving the car and I am pretty sure that I have not achieved max torque/HP but I could not care less, since it is always enough !!!
I am thinking of visiting a rolling road next year to see if my mapping was any good.
I understand that not strapping down the car will result in slip and ruin your tires on the dyno ?
F.C. said:
So what is being said here?
That anyones clutch that can hold at 700 BHP and 600+ torques strapped to a dyno is probably worth an extra 30%-ish on the road theoretically speaking?
rollers are a controlled environment and on the road grip levels can be higher and loads through the drive train can spike as tyres loose and gain grip under hard throttle and rough surfaces, id say on the road you are more likely to push your clutch to its limit than on rollers, for example - different car but same topic, when my noble was mapped to 475 lb/ft and near the limit of a organic clutch plate, on the rollers it was fine and done several full power runs, as soon as i got it on the road it was slipping, simply because during mapping on the rollers the load on the clutch increased gradually with the revs from idle, however on the road applying full throttle at 4000rpm the sudden increase in load and perhaps better grip caused the load on the clutch to be too great and caused slip. I assume it to be the same for NA cars but could be wrong.That anyones clutch that can hold at 700 BHP and 600+ torques strapped to a dyno is probably worth an extra 30%-ish on the road theoretically speaking?
Looks like I'm not the only one on the internets that's had an issue. At least I'm not going crazy.
As he mashed the pedal down, the track became a blur as the torque from the monstrous Dart M-block 406ci Chevy V8 propelled the Ultima towards its top speed. With the pedal to the metal the team soon found the 835Nm of torque was a little too much for the poor clutch, despite claims by the factory that it was sufficient. Slipping in fourth and fifth was unacceptable and it’s since been replaced by a Kennedy Inc clutch system, a stage two with an aluminium billet pressure plate and a six-pad ceramic friction plate rated at 1138Nm of torque.
The above was a New Zealand car. So maybe the issue is we make more torque in the southern hemisphere
As he mashed the pedal down, the track became a blur as the torque from the monstrous Dart M-block 406ci Chevy V8 propelled the Ultima towards its top speed. With the pedal to the metal the team soon found the 835Nm of torque was a little too much for the poor clutch, despite claims by the factory that it was sufficient. Slipping in fourth and fifth was unacceptable and it’s since been replaced by a Kennedy Inc clutch system, a stage two with an aluminium billet pressure plate and a six-pad ceramic friction plate rated at 1138Nm of torque.
The above was a New Zealand car. So maybe the issue is we make more torque in the southern hemisphere
Edited by 02PRUV on Wednesday 12th December 11:13
Ultima factory said:
That particular American Speed equipped GTR kit was supplied by us around 7 years ago and was running a standard clutch supplied by us before we even offered an uprated clutch. The uprated clutch is now supplied as standard hence the price increase a couple of years ago.
Regards to all,
LOL. I hope you guessed I'm joking around. I don't really care my clutch is slipping. I was the one that didn't stick to the Ultima specs and went my own way. So if my setup doesn't work with the Ultima supplied clutch it's all on me. Not you guys. I'm just sharing the info for the idiots like me that just want to go overboard Regards to all,
02PRUV said:
Storer said:
I have the Factory uprated clutch on my G50/52 and had no problems on the rolling road or track.
Richard told me it was the same one they use on the 720hp car.
I would check that the slave is allowing the full pressure of the spring on the friction plate.
Paul
I have checked the fork with my fingers. It's not holding the pressure plate off at all.Richard told me it was the same one they use on the 720hp car.
I would check that the slave is allowing the full pressure of the spring on the friction plate.
Paul
I'd say this engine in my car makes a little bit more torque than an American Speed 720hp engine. Mine made 750hp and 800ft/lb of torque with a 750 Holley on it to test it on the engine dyno. That Holley is why too small for this size engine. So with the EFI the engine builder said it's an 800hp engine easy. Who knows if it would make more torque as well. Remember it's 440ci with the biggest heads you can get and one of the biggest cams to suit. It's no LS7.
(And I remember people saying a while ago, an AS 720hp is more like a 600hp engine. If this is the case then there is a massive difference between mine and an AS. Will find out soon if this is fact once we dyno my mates GTR with an AS engine.)
There is little point in having power (torque) you can't use and if you are going to drive the car mainly on the road you will be driving with clenched buttocks all the time!!!!!
Paul
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