So, who was "in the right?"
Discussion
Witnessed a near miss on the motorway today and I’m interested in the PH cyber-justice over who would have caused this, if it happened...
Scenario:
Motorway, 5:30pm – dark.
Roadworks. Reduced speed limit (50mph) for 4 to 5 miles, with average speed cameras. Coned-off hard-shoulder and narrow lanes.
Lane 1 is traveling at 45 to 50 and is “full” with a long line of traffic, approaching an exit lane
Lanes 2 and 3 are traveling at 50 to 55
Exit ramp is coned-off, to create one exit lane only
Most in lane 1 are indicating to leave the M-Way
What happened
A car in Lane 2 (let’s say an A3), passes several cars, whilst still in lane 2. Less than 70 yards from exit ramp and just past one car, indicates left and is on the brakes, moving across Lane 1 , obviously wanting to exit the M-Way. Appears to try and force Lane 1 driver(s), to give in or give way.
Lane 1 driver “in the way” maintains speed & then brakes (not hard).
A3 driver, has nowhere to go, as Lane 1 driver hasn’t lost enough speed. A3 runs out of road, with Lane 1 car blocking the (single) exit lane ramp.
A3 driver, makes emergency manoeuvre to avoid cones at exit junction and rejoins M-Way in Lane 1, narrowly avoiding coned–off hard shoulder. (Next junction 9 miles away
)
So, who is/was at fault if this had resulted in more than a near miss?
- The Lane 1 driver for not braking harder and giving way?
- The Lane 2 driver, for not getting into Lane 1 sooner?
??
Scenario:
Motorway, 5:30pm – dark.
Roadworks. Reduced speed limit (50mph) for 4 to 5 miles, with average speed cameras. Coned-off hard-shoulder and narrow lanes.
Lane 1 is traveling at 45 to 50 and is “full” with a long line of traffic, approaching an exit lane
Lanes 2 and 3 are traveling at 50 to 55
Exit ramp is coned-off, to create one exit lane only
Most in lane 1 are indicating to leave the M-Way
What happened
A car in Lane 2 (let’s say an A3), passes several cars, whilst still in lane 2. Less than 70 yards from exit ramp and just past one car, indicates left and is on the brakes, moving across Lane 1 , obviously wanting to exit the M-Way. Appears to try and force Lane 1 driver(s), to give in or give way.
Lane 1 driver “in the way” maintains speed & then brakes (not hard).
A3 driver, has nowhere to go, as Lane 1 driver hasn’t lost enough speed. A3 runs out of road, with Lane 1 car blocking the (single) exit lane ramp.
A3 driver, makes emergency manoeuvre to avoid cones at exit junction and rejoins M-Way in Lane 1, narrowly avoiding coned–off hard shoulder. (Next junction 9 miles away
)So, who is/was at fault if this had resulted in more than a near miss?
- The Lane 1 driver for not braking harder and giving way?
- The Lane 2 driver, for not getting into Lane 1 sooner?
??
Bowler said:
Witnessed a near miss on the motorway today and I’m interested in the PH cyber-justice over who would have caused this, if it happened...
Scenario:
Motorway, 5:30pm – dark.
Roadworks. Reduced speed limit (50mph) for 4 to 5 miles, with average speed cameras. Coned-off hard-shoulder and narrow lanes.
Lane 1 is traveling at 45 to 50 and is “full” with a long line of traffic, approaching an exit lane
Lanes 2 and 3 are traveling at 50 to 55
Exit ramp is coned-off, to create one exit lane only
Most in lane 1 are indicating to leave the M-Way
What happened
A car in Lane 2 (let’s say an A3), passes several cars, whilst still in lane 2. Less than 70 yards from exit ramp and just past one car, indicates left and is on the brakes, moving across Lane 1 , obviously wanting to exit the M-Way. Appears to try and force Lane 1 driver(s), to give in or give way.
Lane 1 driver “in the way” maintains speed & then brakes (not hard).
A3 driver, has nowhere to go, as Lane 1 driver hasn’t lost enough speed. A3 runs out of road, with Lane 1 car blocking the (single) exit lane ramp.
A3 driver, makes emergency manoeuvre to avoid cones at exit junction and rejoins M-Way in Lane 1, narrowly avoiding coned–off hard shoulder. (Next junction 9 miles away)
So, who is/was at fault if this had resulted in more than a near miss?
- The Lane 1 driver for not braking harder and giving way?
- The Lane 2 driver, for not getting into Lane 1 sooner?
??
Do you really need to ask? Surely this question is some sort of wind-up, right? Scenario:
Motorway, 5:30pm – dark.
Roadworks. Reduced speed limit (50mph) for 4 to 5 miles, with average speed cameras. Coned-off hard-shoulder and narrow lanes.
Lane 1 is traveling at 45 to 50 and is “full” with a long line of traffic, approaching an exit lane
Lanes 2 and 3 are traveling at 50 to 55
Exit ramp is coned-off, to create one exit lane only
Most in lane 1 are indicating to leave the M-Way
What happened
A car in Lane 2 (let’s say an A3), passes several cars, whilst still in lane 2. Less than 70 yards from exit ramp and just past one car, indicates left and is on the brakes, moving across Lane 1 , obviously wanting to exit the M-Way. Appears to try and force Lane 1 driver(s), to give in or give way.
Lane 1 driver “in the way” maintains speed & then brakes (not hard).
A3 driver, has nowhere to go, as Lane 1 driver hasn’t lost enough speed. A3 runs out of road, with Lane 1 car blocking the (single) exit lane ramp.
A3 driver, makes emergency manoeuvre to avoid cones at exit junction and rejoins M-Way in Lane 1, narrowly avoiding coned–off hard shoulder. (Next junction 9 miles away
)So, who is/was at fault if this had resulted in more than a near miss?
- The Lane 1 driver for not braking harder and giving way?
- The Lane 2 driver, for not getting into Lane 1 sooner?
??
Both.
L2 would have been legally in the wrong as they have no right to just join the lane AFAIK. Yeah they should have been in L1 earlier if it's as bad as that. Poor planning and observation and driving an A3 (I am imagining an angry man in a TDI. His head narrows to a point at the top.)
L1 because driving so you're "in the right" in the ensuing crash is for arses too.
L2 would have been legally in the wrong as they have no right to just join the lane AFAIK. Yeah they should have been in L1 earlier if it's as bad as that. Poor planning and observation and driving an A3 (I am imagining an angry man in a TDI. His head narrows to a point at the top.)
L1 because driving so you're "in the right" in the ensuing crash is for arses too.
Edited by Horse Pop on Wednesday 12th December 00:19
hornetrider said:
L1 driver is a prize cock, and was driving too close to the car in front.
I guess if there was a two second time gap and the vehicle behind was maintaining the same adequate braking distance there could be a situation where there is not sufficient time for the driver in L1 to widen the gap without the driver behind decelerating and the unknown factor that the driver in front is capable of maintaining a constant speed. The onus is on the driver in L2 to give sufficient time to perform a maneuver without expecting motorists to take evasive action.Personally I look ahead, if someone looks to be running out of road and may even appear to want to leave the motor-way at a readily approaching slip road I'm already decelerating to make room to merge as that may be an honest mistake by L2 rather than knowingly abrupt or ignorant driving manners however if the car in L2 comes steaming down my offside and leaves little opportunity for me to get out of his way, I do not risk getting rear ended performing an emergency exit plan for him when a two second time gap between my vehicle and the one I follow is not adequate room to perform the maneuver. The alternative for him is to brake in lane and rejoin L1 safely and accept he has missed his junction by not planning his exit strategy satisfactorily and hopefully learn how that scenario could be avoided in future.
Both probably, but Lane 2 driver really shouldn't be forcing another driver to alter his/her speed or direction of travel to make up for his/her lack of observation. Any manoevre that forces someone else to take action is wrong in my opinion. But as has been said it doesn't take much to either slow down or speed up to make room.
Rochellc01 said:
Lane 2 Driver is in the wrong.
In liabillity terms, the Lane 1 driver was "correctly proceeding" .
Probably, but it could be argued that driver 1 could have forseen the situation and made allowances. Thus they contributed partly to their own damage. Thus maybe a small deduction for contibutory negligence. In liabillity terms, the Lane 1 driver was "correctly proceeding" .
Whilst primary liability is likely to reside with the person in the "wrong" lane, others do have a duty of care, particularly in situations where mistakes are likely.
The other party will say "Yes, I made a mistake, but the other driver could have seen that and helped me out".
Blindly driving along in "your" lane, thinking that nothing can touch you because you are "correctly proceeding" is going to get you in trouble.
Rochellc01 said:
Lane 2 Driver is in the wrong.
In liabillity terms, the Lane 1 driver was "correctly proceeding" .
This - the A3 drive made the assumption that if he moved to the left then a space would magically open up for him. In this instance he just left it too late and tried to do the usual trick of forcing his way into a lane of almost stationary traffic. He should have got into lane 1 in good time to make the exit by indicating and waiting for a space to open up.In liabillity terms, the Lane 1 driver was "correctly proceeding" .
Monty Python said:
This - the A3 drive made the assumption that if he moved to the left then a space would magically open up for him. In this instance he just left it too late and tried to do the usual trick of forcing his way into a lane of almost stationary traffic. He should have got into lane 1 in good time to make the exit by indicating and waiting for a space to open up.
45-50mph is not stationary.I'm not clear on whether the car in lane-1 intentionally altered its speed to block the car in lane-2 and to my mind that's an important point. If not, then 99% lane-2 (giving the 1% for a lack of good defensive driving from lane-1); if he did, then they're both prize idiots who shouldn't be allowed on the road.
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