drove back to back aston v12v / dbs and my own 996 turbo s
Discussion
I posted the below on another forum. Thought it may have been of interest.
I have been looking to replace my 996 turbo s for a while and have been struggling to get interested by anything modern in my price range (unfortunately, I can't afford a 288 gto)...
I have no real budget but I could have stretched to a 430 scuderia but finally decided that it was too much cash strapped in a car so went back to the drawing board.
Had 964rs and 996 gt3 mk2 in the past and got tired of driving them on the road pretty quickly. I have not been near a track in the past 12 months so thinking that the new car will have to be really lovely to drive on the road.
I really want a car that I can take away for the weekend, potentially take to the track if I want to but not feel like a nightmare to drive in 'real life' after 5 minutes. Need decent stereo, decent seats but also the sense of being connected.
I have recently narrowed the choice down to 599 gtb and aston dbs bearing in mind that at 75-85k, they start to make 'sense'. Booked a test drive for a dbs with the aston dealership in cheltenham. I like the idea of a big old brute of an engine in a comfortable good looking package.
The lovely yound lady (saleswoman) insisted that I also took a test drive in a v12v. I did not resist long obviously...
Long story short, I loved it! There was a looooooong time I had not been thrilled and surprised by a car.
I had negative preconceived ideas about the car: not a proper sportscar, not a GT. Plus a recent article on pistonheads was not exactly painting a positive picture about it.
I also read past reviews on this website and PH and they were not particularly good.
Well, my view on the v12v after driving it for nearly an hour is: it really has a sense of purpose. It puts you in the mood to drive instantly.
The bucket seats were awesome: very supportive, yet comfortable. I really loved the driving position and the general atmosphere.
Next thing: the noise or shall I say the noises... Oh yes! Long story short, it makes all the right noises and none of the wrong ones. For me the sound a weekend/fun car makes is HUGELY important. I would not buy a nissan gtr because of that and I am getting really tired of the turbo s engine note... A lot has been written on the topic of the v12v sound. The engine is just such a lovely thing and *that* music participates enormously in putting you in the mood to drive. This is the sort of car that I could see myself just taking around the block for a spin. Also, I am extremely sensitive to all mechanical noises. I hate creaks & squeaks and the general feeling that something is not properly put together. On this front, the v12v reminded me of my 993 c2s: it felt very well screwed together and solid. Much more so than the 996 turbo s which develops strange cabin noises every now and then. I had to have all the glass taken out of my car because of squeaks and rattles. None of that in the v12v. I know that the 993 and v12v hardly have anything in common, yet I could not help but think that the latter reminded me of the former. Maybe the heritage of dr Ulrich Bez having been head of the 993 project development at Porsche prior to taking the leadership of the Aston brand.
The analogue suspension (a rare thing these days) is well judged and we drove over potholes and pretty nasty roads and the ride was very acceptable. It is not soft by any means but very acceptable for a road car. Not crashy at all. The road noise was also very well filtered. My 996 turbo s has a x73 suspension which is a lot more uncompromising and tiring in the end on less than perfect UK roads. The tyre noise is also massive in the porsche and I getting seriously tired about this particular element. Once again, my 993 c2s does not have that kind of annoying road noise. The 996 gt3 also had it and made it particularly frustrating over long distances.
I kind of like the muscular appearance of the v12v. I know some people mentioned that the gear lever was strangely placed. I did not have this impression. The gear lever was a bit cold but that's about it! Changing gear is a particularly pleasant exercise: smooth, precise and not overly notchy. I did put the car in 6th gear and drove it from 30 mph and it was still very nice. Blip the throttle on downshifts is something you want to do ALL THE TIME on a car like this (a pleasure that will soon disappear with all these double clutch automated boxes).
For me, it is CRUCIAL that a fast car is also nice to drive at slow speed which was very much the case here.
Last aspect, practicality: you can put an awfull lot in the boot and the hatch is way more practical than the traditional boot of the dbs... The boot is much larger than the boot of the 996 turbo.
The dbs then? Well similar... but different. I did not fall in love with it like I did with the v12v. You feel a touch more detached in the dbs. I found the trick suspension not particularly interesting. It felt bigger than the former car and generally less fund.
So I came for the dbs and wanted to take the v12v home. It is less of an animal than say the f430 scud I have been in recently but I also think that you can get quickly tired of a car that's too hyper all the time. In pure performance term, it felt a smidge faster than a mapped 996 turbo s, but the engine response is so much more positive and immediate. The power band is much wider. The sense of mechanical connection is present at all time.
The v12v is one honnest down to earth sportscar with a brute of an engine. It has a bags of charm/character and against all odds, I could see myself owning one for a few years.
I'd be quite happy to hear from v12v owners who had their cars for a little while.
Next drive will be 599 and maybe an r8 v10.
My 996 turbo s is going back up for sale..
I have been looking to replace my 996 turbo s for a while and have been struggling to get interested by anything modern in my price range (unfortunately, I can't afford a 288 gto)...
I have no real budget but I could have stretched to a 430 scuderia but finally decided that it was too much cash strapped in a car so went back to the drawing board.
Had 964rs and 996 gt3 mk2 in the past and got tired of driving them on the road pretty quickly. I have not been near a track in the past 12 months so thinking that the new car will have to be really lovely to drive on the road.
I really want a car that I can take away for the weekend, potentially take to the track if I want to but not feel like a nightmare to drive in 'real life' after 5 minutes. Need decent stereo, decent seats but also the sense of being connected.
I have recently narrowed the choice down to 599 gtb and aston dbs bearing in mind that at 75-85k, they start to make 'sense'. Booked a test drive for a dbs with the aston dealership in cheltenham. I like the idea of a big old brute of an engine in a comfortable good looking package.
The lovely yound lady (saleswoman) insisted that I also took a test drive in a v12v. I did not resist long obviously...
Long story short, I loved it! There was a looooooong time I had not been thrilled and surprised by a car.
I had negative preconceived ideas about the car: not a proper sportscar, not a GT. Plus a recent article on pistonheads was not exactly painting a positive picture about it.
I also read past reviews on this website and PH and they were not particularly good.
Well, my view on the v12v after driving it for nearly an hour is: it really has a sense of purpose. It puts you in the mood to drive instantly.
The bucket seats were awesome: very supportive, yet comfortable. I really loved the driving position and the general atmosphere.
Next thing: the noise or shall I say the noises... Oh yes! Long story short, it makes all the right noises and none of the wrong ones. For me the sound a weekend/fun car makes is HUGELY important. I would not buy a nissan gtr because of that and I am getting really tired of the turbo s engine note... A lot has been written on the topic of the v12v sound. The engine is just such a lovely thing and *that* music participates enormously in putting you in the mood to drive. This is the sort of car that I could see myself just taking around the block for a spin. Also, I am extremely sensitive to all mechanical noises. I hate creaks & squeaks and the general feeling that something is not properly put together. On this front, the v12v reminded me of my 993 c2s: it felt very well screwed together and solid. Much more so than the 996 turbo s which develops strange cabin noises every now and then. I had to have all the glass taken out of my car because of squeaks and rattles. None of that in the v12v. I know that the 993 and v12v hardly have anything in common, yet I could not help but think that the latter reminded me of the former. Maybe the heritage of dr Ulrich Bez having been head of the 993 project development at Porsche prior to taking the leadership of the Aston brand.
The analogue suspension (a rare thing these days) is well judged and we drove over potholes and pretty nasty roads and the ride was very acceptable. It is not soft by any means but very acceptable for a road car. Not crashy at all. The road noise was also very well filtered. My 996 turbo s has a x73 suspension which is a lot more uncompromising and tiring in the end on less than perfect UK roads. The tyre noise is also massive in the porsche and I getting seriously tired about this particular element. Once again, my 993 c2s does not have that kind of annoying road noise. The 996 gt3 also had it and made it particularly frustrating over long distances.
I kind of like the muscular appearance of the v12v. I know some people mentioned that the gear lever was strangely placed. I did not have this impression. The gear lever was a bit cold but that's about it! Changing gear is a particularly pleasant exercise: smooth, precise and not overly notchy. I did put the car in 6th gear and drove it from 30 mph and it was still very nice. Blip the throttle on downshifts is something you want to do ALL THE TIME on a car like this (a pleasure that will soon disappear with all these double clutch automated boxes).
For me, it is CRUCIAL that a fast car is also nice to drive at slow speed which was very much the case here.
Last aspect, practicality: you can put an awfull lot in the boot and the hatch is way more practical than the traditional boot of the dbs... The boot is much larger than the boot of the 996 turbo.
The dbs then? Well similar... but different. I did not fall in love with it like I did with the v12v. You feel a touch more detached in the dbs. I found the trick suspension not particularly interesting. It felt bigger than the former car and generally less fund.
So I came for the dbs and wanted to take the v12v home. It is less of an animal than say the f430 scud I have been in recently but I also think that you can get quickly tired of a car that's too hyper all the time. In pure performance term, it felt a smidge faster than a mapped 996 turbo s, but the engine response is so much more positive and immediate. The power band is much wider. The sense of mechanical connection is present at all time.
The v12v is one honnest down to earth sportscar with a brute of an engine. It has a bags of charm/character and against all odds, I could see myself owning one for a few years.
I'd be quite happy to hear from v12v owners who had their cars for a little while.
Next drive will be 599 and maybe an r8 v10.
My 996 turbo s is going back up for sale..
erics said:
stuff.........
Well, my view on the v12v after driving it for nearly an hour is: it really has a sense of purpose. It puts you in the mood to drive instantly...more stuff
The v12v is one honnest down to earth sportscar with a brute of an engine. It has a bags of charm/character and against all odds,....... plus a little more stuff ..
Hi EricWell, my view on the v12v after driving it for nearly an hour is: it really has a sense of purpose. It puts you in the mood to drive instantly...more stuff
The v12v is one honnest down to earth sportscar with a brute of an engine. It has a bags of charm/character and against all odds,....... plus a little more stuff ..
I don't think you will find a single V12V owner that would question your findings...your are preaching to the converted
as Mikey said 'when are you putting down a deposit'...then just remember pictures are required upon joining our happy band of ownersIt does get under your skin... 
I'm not a heroic driver, nor do I have an illustrious car history... but I know what I like and the V12V ticks all the boxes.... tonyV12V, the cockernee and I took our V12V's to Spa in September for an AM track day.. They were superb.. the cockernee will be along shortly I'm sure to give a 'real drivers' view of the cars performance...
get your deposit downn you know it makes sense...
I'm not a heroic driver, nor do I have an illustrious car history... but I know what I like and the V12V ticks all the boxes.... tonyV12V, the cockernee and I took our V12V's to Spa in September for an AM track day.. They were superb.. the cockernee will be along shortly I'm sure to give a 'real drivers' view of the cars performance...
get your deposit downn you know it makes sense...
excellent question and trust me I have seriously considered it... The car you mention is probably the best sportscar on sale today. I think I just need a change of scenery. Had Porsches for the past 15 years and fancy trying something else.
I may end up regretting it, but you only live once. Yesterday, I really fell in love with the v12v. Trust me, I
I hardly see the logic of selling my 996 turbo S which has superb spec, manual carbon fibre everywhere and then put in the same amount of money on top of it (think 40 + 40) to get something which is a very similar car. When I sell it, I will never be able to replace it. 996 turbo S coupe (600 made worldwide) are much rarer than 997.2 turbo S which is no longer a special edition.
The v12v or dbs or 599 are cars that shaved half their values so far. The 997.2 turbo s is just starting to depreciate.
I want to test drive a 599 gtb as well to make sure I cover all areas. Anyone driven the F car for comparison-sake?
Another argument against the 997.2 is that is will be a weekend car only.
The only thing going in favour of the P cars is the 4 wheel drive system. It is overly efficient and in the weather we currently know, you can take liberties that you can just forget about is aby Aston or Fezza.
I may end up regretting it, but you only live once. Yesterday, I really fell in love with the v12v. Trust me, I
I hardly see the logic of selling my 996 turbo S which has superb spec, manual carbon fibre everywhere and then put in the same amount of money on top of it (think 40 + 40) to get something which is a very similar car. When I sell it, I will never be able to replace it. 996 turbo S coupe (600 made worldwide) are much rarer than 997.2 turbo S which is no longer a special edition.
The v12v or dbs or 599 are cars that shaved half their values so far. The 997.2 turbo s is just starting to depreciate.
I want to test drive a 599 gtb as well to make sure I cover all areas. Anyone driven the F car for comparison-sake?
Another argument against the 997.2 is that is will be a weekend car only.
The only thing going in favour of the P cars is the 4 wheel drive system. It is overly efficient and in the weather we currently know, you can take liberties that you can just forget about is aby Aston or Fezza.
cayman-black said:
Good post erics. I like all the car you have mentioned.
What about a GEN2 Turbo S. ? A lot of car and speed for the money, would do every thing you need from a car , plus a lot of grip with all this bad weather.
What about a GEN2 Turbo S. ? A lot of car and speed for the money, would do every thing you need from a car , plus a lot of grip with all this bad weather.
JBE68 said:
erics said:
I think I just need a change of scenery. Had Porsches for the past 15 years and fancy trying something else.
I couldn't agree more as I made the same switch from Porsche to my first Aston, a V8V, in March and wouldn't look back.Really quite different, loved my 996, but it never had the same sense of occasion as my V8V does.
- Steve
you can't deny that they are quite special and the latest itteration has one of these 'fashionable' trick exhaust which sounds fruity when you want it to...
More like f16 style rather than exciting motorsport sound though.
A 997.2 turbo s would certainly murder a v12v and even a 599 gtb in pure performance terms. I am not sure this is what I am after these days...
At the rish of repeating myself, I am after a fast car that is also fun at low speeds. That brings that sense of occasion.
More like f16 style rather than exciting motorsport sound though.
A 997.2 turbo s would certainly murder a v12v and even a 599 gtb in pure performance terms. I am not sure this is what I am after these days...
At the rish of repeating myself, I am after a fast car that is also fun at low speeds. That brings that sense of occasion.
Paxto said:
I saw a lovely 997 turbo s cabrio in London the other day.
Made almost no sound at all. Went right off it.
Made almost no sound at all. Went right off it.
erics said:
At the risk of repeating myself, I am after a fast car that is also fun at low speeds. That brings that sense of occasion.
Hi EricsThe V12V is ceratinly a car that is fun to drive at low speeds - that was also one of my major influencing factors in purchasing. I have been driving around in a V12V for the last 2.5 yrs and loved every last mile, quite probably a good percentage of these have been at low speeds around town. The car just puts a grin on your face like few other cars do these days no matter where you are or the speed. It just feels right all the time and certainly gives that sense of occasion you are looking for.
It sounds like you are already a convert to the lightweight seats but to me these are an essential part of the package that makes the V12V feel the way it does - you may or may not be aware but these are not fitted to all V12V's and also that they are an option on all V8 Vantages and DBS too, but just are more commonly seen on V12V due to the nature of the car. I seem to remember Phil posting that about 50% of V12V's have lightweight seats but Im sure he will be along soon to correct me if Im wrong.
Now go get one bought and post some pics!
Erics, as my illustrious fellow V12V owners have said, these things get under your skin. I had a V8V for 2 years and was told not to drive a V12V unless I had the money to buy it. I guess you now know why 
It is difficult to put into words, but in honesty you have made a good effort after only 1 hour. After 1 year, 3 track days 6000 miles (oops that will make it worthless) and the addition of another 60BHP, i can't see me wanting to sell anytime soon. I did not think that I would cover 6,000 miles in a year, but I just can't stop driving the bloody thing. I went out today again and it is covered in crap, but I just love being in it.
It is surprisingly good around the track for a 1.6 ton car, the brakes are awesome, the pull from low revs to the redline is fantastic and the shorter chassis makes it change direction quickly, sometimes without you wanting it to. It is a car that begs to be driven hard and it kind of goads you into trying harder every corner, it is that good. You have not experienced it in the best of temperatures either to get the best from it, but it sounds like you have already been bitten by the V12V bug. Get it bought, get some pictures up (thems the rules) and then get out on a hoon with us lot sometime. Welcome to the AM forum by the way.
God I love that car.
It is difficult to put into words, but in honesty you have made a good effort after only 1 hour. After 1 year, 3 track days 6000 miles (oops that will make it worthless) and the addition of another 60BHP, i can't see me wanting to sell anytime soon. I did not think that I would cover 6,000 miles in a year, but I just can't stop driving the bloody thing. I went out today again and it is covered in crap, but I just love being in it.
It is surprisingly good around the track for a 1.6 ton car, the brakes are awesome, the pull from low revs to the redline is fantastic and the shorter chassis makes it change direction quickly, sometimes without you wanting it to
. It is a car that begs to be driven hard and it kind of goads you into trying harder every corner, it is that good. You have not experienced it in the best of temperatures either to get the best from it, but it sounds like you have already been bitten by the V12V bug. Get it bought, get some pictures up (thems the rules) and then get out on a hoon with us lot sometime. Welcome to the AM forum by the way.God I love that car.
Cockernee said:
Erics, as my illustrious fellow V12V owners have said, these things get under your skin. I had a V8V for 2 years and was told not to drive a V12V unless I had the money to buy it. I guess you now know why
It is difficult to put into words, but in honesty you have made a good effort after only 1 hour. After 1 year, 3 track days 6000 miles (oops that will make it worthless) and the addition of another 60BHP, i can't see me wanting to sell anytime soon. I did not think that I would cover 6,000 miles in a year, but I just can't stop driving the bloody thing. I went out today again and it is covered in crap, but I just love being in it.
It is surprisingly good around the track for a 1.6 ton car, the brakes are awesome, the pull from low revs to the redline is fantastic and the shorter chassis makes it change direction quickly, sometimes without you wanting it to. It is a car that begs to be driven hard and it kind of goads you into trying harder every corner, it is that good. You have not experienced it in the best of temperatures either to get the best from it, but it sounds like you have already been bitten by the V12V bug. Get it bought, get some pictures up (thems the rules) and then get out on a hoon with us lot sometime. Welcome to the AM forum by the way.
God I love that car.
Could not say it better myself. +1It is difficult to put into words, but in honesty you have made a good effort after only 1 hour. After 1 year, 3 track days 6000 miles (oops that will make it worthless) and the addition of another 60BHP, i can't see me wanting to sell anytime soon. I did not think that I would cover 6,000 miles in a year, but I just can't stop driving the bloody thing. I went out today again and it is covered in crap, but I just love being in it.
It is surprisingly good around the track for a 1.6 ton car, the brakes are awesome, the pull from low revs to the redline is fantastic and the shorter chassis makes it change direction quickly, sometimes without you wanting it to
. It is a car that begs to be driven hard and it kind of goads you into trying harder every corner, it is that good. You have not experienced it in the best of temperatures either to get the best from it, but it sounds like you have already been bitten by the V12V bug. Get it bought, get some pictures up (thems the rules) and then get out on a hoon with us lot sometime. Welcome to the AM forum by the way.God I love that car.
It's an event. Universally admired and oozes class. The sound is unsurpassed, has massive levels of grip , remains the antithesis of a Ferrari, and utterley British.
Downsides....massive depreciation from new, mileage sensitive, awful alloys (IMO), and heavy (which you do feel).
Coupe looks far cleaner and svelte than the Cab, again IMO.
It's got more character in its valve cap than a modern 911 has in its entirety .....you won't regret it.
Downsides....massive depreciation from new, mileage sensitive, awful alloys (IMO), and heavy (which you do feel).
Coupe looks far cleaner and svelte than the Cab, again IMO.
It's got more character in its valve cap than a modern 911 has in its entirety .....you won't regret it.
The 996TT is a hard car to replace, so much grunt and 4-wd grip, but you'll find the Aston a whole new experience on many levels, from looks, interior, feel, sound, handling and feel- good factor... I went from 996TT to V8 Vantage and loved the move, going to V12V will give you the full adrenalin fix in addition to the other Aston benefits.... Do it 
Let us know what you decide.
Let us know what you decide.
Chaps, just wondering, what's the general take from owners on the ride and road noise on v12v after some time of ownership?
Does it get irritating or is it still acceptable after a few month and years?
I ask bc when test drove my 996 gt3, these things were not instantly obvious, it was only after a while that these things started wearing me out...
Anyone taken their v12v for a very long trip?
Does it get irritating or is it still acceptable after a few month and years?
I ask bc when test drove my 996 gt3, these things were not instantly obvious, it was only after a while that these things started wearing me out...
Anyone taken their v12v for a very long trip?
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