Real world MPG wiki?

[blindswelledrat]

IM not sure if there is any interest in this, but it has become increasingly evident to me that published MPG figures are utterly irrelevant, and MPG is as important as BHP to a lot of people and yet there is seemingly no reliable scource on the internet
I would have thought between us all we own most cars and could create a pretty decent database which would take into account driving styles etc.

My suggestions would be to have the folowing bits of information:

Car
Driving Style: i.e. economical, normal, brisk, quick and mental
Average motorways speed
Best ever tank (MPG)
Worst ever
NOrmal tank

Ill do a few of my cars if anyone else in the world has an interest in this. I have this daunting feeling that it will only be me >holds finger over delete<

[AnotherClarkey]

I think that www.spritmonitor.de has just about everything you need, probably more. The 'most fuel efficient vehicles' list makes interesting reading, especially for people who claim that 'hybrids are a gimmick'.

Edited by AnotherClarkey on Monday 17th December 12:39

[Dave^]

You mean like this?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


and this...


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[blindswelledrat]

Dave^ said:

You mean like this?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


and this...


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[lockhart flawse]

and www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg

L.F.

[Dave^]

blindswelledrat said:

They do need a Best Tank and Worst Tank column though...

[Captain Muppet]

The problem with the official NEDC figures is that you have to know how to drive a car to get the figures. And most people haven't a clue.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The figures are achievable, but it takes effort. Apparently fuel isn't yet expensive enough to be worth saving.

[simoid]

AnotherClarkey said:

I think that www.spritmonitor.de has just about everything you need, probably more. The 'most fuel efficient vehicles' list makes interesting reading, especially for people who claim that 'hybrids are a gimmick'.

Edited by AnotherClarkey on Monday 17th December 12:39

Hybrids are quiet fuel efficient.

Many say they are expensive and not environmentally friendly - hence gimmick

[blindswelledrat]

Captain Muppet said:

The problem with the official NEDC figures is that you have to know how to drive a car to get the figures. And most people haven't a clue.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The figures are achievable, but it takes effort. Apparently fuel isn't yet expensive enough to be worth saving.

Interesting.
So presumably the driving style of this test is near-impossible to replicate, it is nonsense. Yet I would guess that many manufacturers actually design cars to be most efficient under those conditions?

As a side note, maybe you can answer this as I cant get my head around the science.
Say you have 2 people carriers, a 2 litre diesel, and an 'efficient' 1.6 diesel; In many cases if you drive reasonably briskly, are you better off owning the 2.0 car or is your economy going to be worse than the published figures of either?

[Dave^]

blindswelledrat said:

As a side note, maybe you can answer this as I cant get my head around the science.
Say you have 2 people carriers, a 2 litre diesel, and an 'efficient' 1.6 diesel; In many cases if you drive reasonably briskly, are you better off owning the 2.0 car or is your economy going to be worse than the published figures of either?

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/06/12/bmw-m3-vs-toyota-prius-its-how-you-drive-it-that-matters/

[simoid]

blindswelledrat said:

Say you have 2 people carriers, a 2 litre diesel, and an 'efficient' 1.6 diesel; In many cases if you drive reasonably briskly, are you better off owning the 2.0 car or is your economy going to be worse than the published figures of either?

I think fuel costs will depend on "how brisk is reasonably brisk" and other such factors that you're unlikely to find out.

Remember on TG, a Prius at maximum attack and an M3 at the same speed took similar fuel levels (or was the M3 more efficient?)

It will vary on so many other factors as to be very difficult to generalise.

[Krikkit]

simoid said:

Remember on TG, a Prius at maximum attack and an M3 at the same speed took similar fuel levels (or was the M3 more efficient?)

BMW Blog said:

After 10 laps, surprisingly, Jeremy gives the M3 some credit, with its 19.4 MPG fuel consumption versus the 17.2 MPG for the Prius.

It's not as much what as how is a big factor as well - on an urban commute a Prius will be thoroughly good, but mixed a-roads and motorways it's a different story!

[Captain Muppet]

blindswelledrat said:

Captain Muppet said:

The problem with the official NEDC figures is that you have to know how to drive a car to get the figures. And most people haven't a clue.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The figures are achievable, but it takes effort. Apparently fuel isn't yet expensive enough to be worth saving.

Interesting.
So presumably the driving style of this test is near-impossible to replicate, it is nonsense. Yet I would guess that many manufacturers actually design cars to be most efficient under those conditions?

It's easy to replicate, just very dull. You can even beat the published fuel economy if you want, if you don't need to get anywhere in a hurry.

Many cars will be designed to do well in the tests, but that doesn't stop a driver who cares enough from driving in such a way to reap the rewards of careful optimisation. Personally I'd rather have fun instead.

I've ignored your science question as I don't have the resources to generate any meaningful data.

[M Powered]

Captain Muppet said:

blindswelledrat said:

Captain Muppet said:

The problem with the official NEDC figures is that you have to know how to drive a car to get the figures. And most people haven't a clue.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The figures are achievable, but it takes effort. Apparently fuel isn't yet expensive enough to be worth saving.

Interesting.
So presumably the driving style of this test is near-impossible to replicate, it is nonsense. Yet I would guess that many manufacturers actually design cars to be most efficient under those conditions?

It's easy to replicate, just very dull. You can even beat the published fuel economy if you want, if you don't need to get anywhere in a hurry.

Many cars will be designed to do well in the tests, but that doesn't stop a driver who cares enough from driving in such a way to reap the rewards of careful optimisation. Personally I'd rather have fun instead.

I've ignored your science question as I don't have the resources to generate any meaningful data.

As stated, it's entirely possible to match the figures. Follow one simple rule and you will likely get close:

High power is generally the enemy, therefore acceleration, gradients and "high" speeds are to be avoided.
Obviously, one generally can't avoid a gradient, so try gradually reducing speed on an uphill, but use a downhill to your advantage too. Oh yeah, and depending on the car, turning A/C off too.

Disclaimer - This is a massive simplification.

And to the OP - use spiritmonitor.de - it's the best there is. Fuelly is not great due to poor categorisation.

[blindswelledrat]

Do you know what the extra-urban MPH figure is for those tests?
You would have thought that this would be easily recreatable. However, at 70mpg constant our family people carrier does 20% less than the official

[simoid]

blindswelledrat said:

Do you know what the extra-urban MPH figure is for those tests?
You would have thought that this would be easily recreatable. However, at 70mpg constant our family people carrier does 20% less than the official

Try google

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514269543/html/x787.h...

"The extra-urban driving cycle or EUDC lasts 400 seconds (6 minutes 40 seconds) at an average speed 62.6 km/h (39 mph) and a top speed of 120 km/h (74.6 mph)."

[simoid]

Found a better one:

"Extra-urban driving

The EUDC (Extra Urban Driving Cycle), introduced by ECE R101 in 1990, has been designed to represent more aggressive, high speed driving modes. The maximum speed of the EUDC cycle is 120 km/h; low-powered vehicles are limited to 90 km/h.

After a 20 s stop - if equipped with manual gearbox, in the 1st gear with clutch disengaged - the car slowly accelerates to 70 km/h in 41 s (manual: 5 s, 9 s, 8 s and 13 s in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears, with additional 3 × 2 s for gear changes), cruises for 50 s (manual: in the 5th gear [sic]), decelerates to 50 km/h in 8 s (manual: 4 s in the 5th and 4 s in the 4th gear [sic]) and cruises for 69 s, then slowly accelerates to 70 km/h in 13 s.

At 201 s, the car cruises at 70 km/h for 50 s (manual: in the 5th gear), then slowly accelerates to 100 km/h in 35 s and cruises for 30 s (manual: in the 5th or 6th gear).

Finally, at 316 s the car slowly accelerates to 120 km/h in 20 s, cruises for 10 s, then slowly brakes to a full stop in 34 s (manual: in the 5th or 6th gear, lat 10 s with clutch disengaged), and idles for another 20 s (manual: in neutral).

Total duration is 400 s (6 minutes 40 seconds) and theoretical distance is 6956 meters, with an average speed of 62.6 km/h."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_...

[blindswelledrat]

simoid said:

Try google

Grrr, why do people say this? You could google the answer to every single thread on here.
Or say that in reply to every question you ever get asked in history.

simoid said:

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514269543/html/x787.h...

"The extra-urban driving cycle or EUDC lasts 400 seconds (6 minutes 40 seconds) at an average speed 62.6 km/h (39 mph) and a top speed of 120 km/h (74.6 mph)."

Thanks

[blindswelledrat]

currybum said:

Real world MPG is a pretty meaningless metric to use as a car comparator.

Every driver in every situation will have a different “real world” MPG that varies from day to day,

That was actually the whole point of this thread.

CB said:

NEDC is at least a fair way to compare cars to each other.

Reading the above, I agree, but they dont bear any relevance to me personally, or with a similar driving style.
So in one car I might get close to the manufacturers guide, where in a nother I am miles off.

[Wise]

Here is a video about MPG it's a wee bit extreme but really shows its more down to how you drive other than the official MPG figures.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/exclusives/extreme-fuel-eco...