Dentistry question two
Discussion
Please excuse the length of my rambling post. I started a thread in June about root canal treatment to one of my lower jaw molars.
I went ahead with the private specialist and had the filling done in early November at a cost of £785.00 (£95 for the initial consultation and a further £690 for the treatment).
When the work was carried out the dentist said there was a crack in the tooth. He said that if the crack was serious he would not do the rct and take the tooth out.
The work went ahead and all seemed well.
After a weekend of severe tooth pain (it felt as it had done when the abcess first occured) I rang the clinic up and was given an appointment for yesterday pm.
I saw a different dentist to the one that had carried out the work. She said that the tooth and filling were cracked and would have to be taken out - which she did.
Should I put it down to experience and say never mind sh*t happens, or approach the pratice to ask if it is normal for such work to fail so quickly? I am a little put out that all that money has been wasted. I would have been better using it to take the kids to Lapland to see Santa.
When I asked about the financial aspect of the work the dentist who removed the tooth evaded answering the question, but said she would remove it for free.
By the time she had finished extracting the tooth I was not in a fit state to hold a conversation due to the bleeding and the amount of anaesthetic I had had. I was slurring like a drunken vagrant.
The cynic within me is a little suspicious that the work went ahead when the dentist had identified a crack. He would not have been able to charge me the £690.00 and he would have had a wasted couple of hours with no patients if he had taken the tooth out.(I believe he works there one day a week).
May be I am being unduly cycnical, (it is turning into a crappy week. The kids guinea pig died, the cat is on her last legs and will probably die before Christmas, I have a sore jaw, I am grumpier than normal and had a sleepless night).
I went ahead with the private specialist and had the filling done in early November at a cost of £785.00 (£95 for the initial consultation and a further £690 for the treatment).
When the work was carried out the dentist said there was a crack in the tooth. He said that if the crack was serious he would not do the rct and take the tooth out.
The work went ahead and all seemed well.
After a weekend of severe tooth pain (it felt as it had done when the abcess first occured) I rang the clinic up and was given an appointment for yesterday pm.
I saw a different dentist to the one that had carried out the work. She said that the tooth and filling were cracked and would have to be taken out - which she did.
Should I put it down to experience and say never mind sh*t happens, or approach the pratice to ask if it is normal for such work to fail so quickly? I am a little put out that all that money has been wasted. I would have been better using it to take the kids to Lapland to see Santa.
When I asked about the financial aspect of the work the dentist who removed the tooth evaded answering the question, but said she would remove it for free.
By the time she had finished extracting the tooth I was not in a fit state to hold a conversation due to the bleeding and the amount of anaesthetic I had had. I was slurring like a drunken vagrant.
The cynic within me is a little suspicious that the work went ahead when the dentist had identified a crack. He would not have been able to charge me the £690.00 and he would have had a wasted couple of hours with no patients if he had taken the tooth out.(I believe he works there one day a week).
May be I am being unduly cycnical, (it is turning into a crappy week. The kids guinea pig died, the cat is on her last legs and will probably die before Christmas, I have a sore jaw, I am grumpier than normal and had a sleepless night).
£785?! Jaysus. You should take them to court over that alone!
I've tried private and NHS. I find it's only the NHS that will give you somekind of unofficial week or 2 free reworkings should things go wrong. But really, if it were me I'd be straight back to demand a full refund... cameraphone in record. (It would've been on record during the consultation as well).
I've tried private and NHS. I find it's only the NHS that will give you somekind of unofficial week or 2 free reworkings should things go wrong. But really, if it were me I'd be straight back to demand a full refund... cameraphone in record. (It would've been on record during the consultation as well).
PH5121 said:
May be I am being unduly cynical, (it is turning into a crappy week. The kids guinea pig died, the cat is on her last legs and will probably die before Christmas, I have a sore jaw, I am grumpier than normal and had a sleepless night).
That about sums it upOn the bright side theres the new year
I'd probably think the same - can you sue a dentist for a broken toth? or is it fair wear and tear
If you replace it with an implant it'll cost £1000 but you do need to find someone you can trust. With dentistry it seems we all experiment first
Maybe this should go into SP&L for legal matters?
Tooth could have fractured following the root canal therapy as there is an increased chance of this happening when RCT is done.
There would be little point in the dentist doing the RCT if he really knew there was a fracture, as it would definitely fail.
Having said that, I would have immediately refunded you the money anyway, if we are getting the whole story.
Treatment on the NHS has a 1 year guarantee by the way.
The fee for the treatment was reasonable and why someone would suggest taking the dentist to court over a quote for treatment is strange.
I would write to the dentist with your concerns. Since a different dentist took the tooth out, the original one may not know what has happened, especially as they seemed to be a visiting specialist.
Oh and if someone attended a consultation whilst recording on a camera phone, I would take that as an immediate breakdown in the patient-dentist relationship. You would then be shown the door.
There would be little point in the dentist doing the RCT if he really knew there was a fracture, as it would definitely fail.
Having said that, I would have immediately refunded you the money anyway, if we are getting the whole story.
Treatment on the NHS has a 1 year guarantee by the way.
The fee for the treatment was reasonable and why someone would suggest taking the dentist to court over a quote for treatment is strange.
I would write to the dentist with your concerns. Since a different dentist took the tooth out, the original one may not know what has happened, especially as they seemed to be a visiting specialist.
Oh and if someone attended a consultation whilst recording on a camera phone, I would take that as an immediate breakdown in the patient-dentist relationship. You would then be shown the door.
Rollin,
Thanks for your perpspective as a dentist.
The tale I have told is the full story, the only thing I failed to mention was that the tooth had a copper band around it to hold it together due to the crack. If after a subsequent check in May the dentist who did the work was happy then it would have needed to be capped I was told.
I would not dream of threatening legal action, but I am very disappointed that the root canal therpay failed so quickly. If the dentist was willing to refund the cost / part of the cost it would be a very nice Christmas bonus.
Rollin you have said you would refund a patient in this circumstance.
Could you (or any other PH dentist) comment in general what a dentist would do if they received a letter outlining the events that had happened and asking for a refund/partial refund? Would they entertain it or file it in the 'tough luck' bin.
What I am trying to get at is there a standard code of conduct or pratice in this circumstance, or is it down to the good will of the practice / dentist?
Any advice would be gratefully received, as I feel it would be appropriate to write a letter to the clinic.
Thanks for your perpspective as a dentist.
The tale I have told is the full story, the only thing I failed to mention was that the tooth had a copper band around it to hold it together due to the crack. If after a subsequent check in May the dentist who did the work was happy then it would have needed to be capped I was told.
I would not dream of threatening legal action, but I am very disappointed that the root canal therpay failed so quickly. If the dentist was willing to refund the cost / part of the cost it would be a very nice Christmas bonus.
Rollin you have said you would refund a patient in this circumstance.
Could you (or any other PH dentist) comment in general what a dentist would do if they received a letter outlining the events that had happened and asking for a refund/partial refund? Would they entertain it or file it in the 'tough luck' bin.
What I am trying to get at is there a standard code of conduct or pratice in this circumstance, or is it down to the good will of the practice / dentist?
Any advice would be gratefully received, as I feel it would be appropriate to write a letter to the clinic.
I agree with MacGee and Rollin, it seems a bit unfair to take your money after the tooth failed not a month after the treatment. Anyway, I would consider I would have much more to gain with a gesture of goodwill than keeping the money. As above, charge for the extraction and refund the RCT would be fair.
Have you tried phoning the practice and asking kindly to have a chat with the guy? If he's too busy perhaps tell them on the phone that you'll pop a letter in the post with a few "questions" regarding the treatment you had. Best not to just send a letter that is in any way confrontational
Have you tried phoning the practice and asking kindly to have a chat with the guy? If he's too busy perhaps tell them on the phone that you'll pop a letter in the post with a few "questions" regarding the treatment you had. Best not to just send a letter that is in any way confrontational
I would write a nice polite letter addressed to the Practice Manager outlining your concerns. I would mention things like being a long standing patient, being happy with all previous treatment etc (if this is the case).
The practice will have an in house complaints procedure which should get you a response in a couple of weeks (maybe longer due to Christmas holidays). This will give you the dentists point of view and may resolve the matter. Most things like this are down to misunderstandings or lack of communication from either side.
As I don't know all the circumstances, it's possible that any refund would be down to goodwill from the dentist and contrary to what many people think, most dentists are not money grabbing b
ds . If this is to be a goodwill gesture on behalf of the dentist, then it is wise not to threaten legal action etc in your letter as it will obviously get his/her back up if they feel they have done nothing wrong. If you are not happy with the dentists reply, there are further steps you can take if you so choose.
I think that the above is a reasonable course of action based on what you have stated, but don't take this as any sort of legal/professional advice.
The practice will have an in house complaints procedure which should get you a response in a couple of weeks (maybe longer due to Christmas holidays). This will give you the dentists point of view and may resolve the matter. Most things like this are down to misunderstandings or lack of communication from either side.
As I don't know all the circumstances, it's possible that any refund would be down to goodwill from the dentist and contrary to what many people think, most dentists are not money grabbing b
ds . If this is to be a goodwill gesture on behalf of the dentist, then it is wise not to threaten legal action etc in your letter as it will obviously get his/her back up if they feel they have done nothing wrong. If you are not happy with the dentists reply, there are further steps you can take if you so choose. I think that the above is a reasonable course of action based on what you have stated, but don't take this as any sort of legal/professional advice.
The dentist did warn the patient that a fracture was present in the tooth.
This was prior to completing the root canal treatment(RCT)
Was it was explained that this lowered the success rate?
If this was the case, but the patient chose to continue with the treatment, this would be significant.
I would not charge for the extraction. I would charge for the RCT if it was carried out to an adequate standard.
An adequate standard would be graded at a higher level for a specailist than for a general dental practitioner.
The way I read things the patient was given a guarded prognosis for the RCT. Otherwise The Endodontist would have placed a definitive coronal seal at an ealier point rather than waiting six months to reasess the situation.
No RCT can be guaranteed to work even in the hands of a specialist.
I could be reading things wrong though.
Am I OP?
This was prior to completing the root canal treatment(RCT)
Was it was explained that this lowered the success rate?
If this was the case, but the patient chose to continue with the treatment, this would be significant.
I would not charge for the extraction. I would charge for the RCT if it was carried out to an adequate standard.
An adequate standard would be graded at a higher level for a specailist than for a general dental practitioner.
The way I read things the patient was given a guarded prognosis for the RCT. Otherwise The Endodontist would have placed a definitive coronal seal at an ealier point rather than waiting six months to reasess the situation.
No RCT can be guaranteed to work even in the hands of a specialist.
I could be reading things wrong though.
Am I OP?
prg1 said:
I would charge for the RCT if it was carried out to an adequate standard.
An adequate standard would be graded at a higher level for a specailist than for a general dental practitioner.
I don't see how this is relevant if the tooth fell to bits a month later An adequate standard would be graded at a higher level for a specailist than for a general dental practitioner.
It seems to me that in any circumstance, if the tooth fails less than a month after work is carried out on it it would be unreasonable to charge the patient. Same if it was a crown etc It's up to the dentist to judge the suitability of any treatment and then provide a reasonable guarantee.
Of course another route would be to deduct this amount from the next solution to replace the tooth, implant etc. Bit tricky if he just does endo though.
All IMO of course
Certainly if I saw a fracture in a tooth I was root filling I would abandon the root filling. However in specialist hands that may not have made the tooth as unrestorable as it would in my hands.
I do not know as I am not an endodontist.
Fracture of the tooth was obviously in the specialists mind as a possibility. I assume to try to prevent this a copper band was placed.
We are not privy to the conversation that occured on the assessment of the fracture.
I do not know as I am not an endodontist.
Fracture of the tooth was obviously in the specialists mind as a possibility. I assume to try to prevent this a copper band was placed.
We are not privy to the conversation that occured on the assessment of the fracture.
In response to the query raised by Prg1, the dentist identified the fracture early in the rct procedure (ie within first few minutes whilst taking x-rays, of a process which took 2.5 hours).
He said that as he progressed he would assess how serious it was, and if appropriate he would remove the tooth rather than carry on with the work.
I was happy to go along with his recommendation of the best way to proceed.
He said that as he progressed he would assess how serious it was, and if appropriate he would remove the tooth rather than carry on with the work.
I was happy to go along with his recommendation of the best way to proceed.
To be fair OP , if he has said he would not complete it if the prognosis would be poor, then I think it would be reasonable to ask for some recompense.
All practices have a complaints procedure.
Most of us would prefer to see the patient discuss what happened and come to some arrangement before the complaints procedure got to far down the line.
It can not hurt to ask anyway.
The biggest shame is after two and a half hours of yours and the dentists time fixing the tooth has not worked out.
All practices have a complaints procedure.
Most of us would prefer to see the patient discuss what happened and come to some arrangement before the complaints procedure got to far down the line.
It can not hurt to ask anyway.
The biggest shame is after two and a half hours of yours and the dentists time fixing the tooth has not worked out.
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