Changing tack...

[Otispunkmeyer]

Hi all

So basically, while I enjoy photography, I haven't really done much of it (as in having a decent go at it) in the past year. I am not really sure why. Part of it is lack of time, part of it is lack of interesting things (things that I find interesting... plus the midlands must be the dreariest place I have ever lived) but I think for the most part, its down to the equipment. Great though the EOS 7D is, I don't really feel that it is conducive to on the fly, on a whim photography.

There have been numerous times where I could have taken the camera out on a trip out, but then didn't on account of not wanting to lug that lump around with me all day of the off chance there maybe something good to shoot. Of course at an event where I know there'll be good opportunities then I bring it along, but this means the camera is only being used somewhat purposely for special events (which are few and far between). I won' ramble on, but the long and the short of it is that as user experience, having a near full size, highly capable DSLR + all its ancillaries borders more toward being a chore than being any fun. Fun. That word is important I think, for if you aren't having fun, you aren't enjoying it and you aren't likely to be doing your best. This I feel is true for all aspects of life... your wife, your job, your friends, if none of them are fun then you are doomed to a miserable existence.

So on to the remedy. I don't for a second think this is the correct answer, but I hope it is. To me it seems a logical step to take. As I have said, I don't feel like I have fallen out love with photography, no way. I think it is just a case of the equipment not being conducive to the way I would like to operate. Due to size/weight/clutter it doesn't come out to social events, I certainly won't bring it to dinners out and I don't carry it to work on whim either, its just too bulky. I wasn't even able to take it on my recent holiday (where I would of loved to have had a proper camera) because luggage weight limits prohibited it.

So... I'm thinking lighter, I'm thinking smaller, I'm thinking compact mirror-less systems.

I'm particularly drawn to the Sony NEX-6. Its the right size, it sounds properly capable, the controls aren't compromised too much and it has a (supposedly) very very good EVF. A view finder is something I really want to retain as I do like holding the camera to my face to frame images. It won't beat the full coverage prism on a 7D, but hopefully it won't be a compromise too far. The Olympus OMD is also an option (though significantly more expensive) though it sounds thoroughly complex and if the menus are anything like as bad as on my GF's Olympus TG-820 then I'll hate using it. It does have far more lens options, Sony's seem limited unless you shell out for the lens adapter.

Are there any other options in this arena that posses a view finder?

Does this sound like a sensible tack? I mean the alternatives are give it up all together or trade the lot in for a compact P&S (having had to use one on said holiday, I don't fancy this much, the IQ is miles away from something with a proper sized sensor) because keeping what I have just isn't working. If, having traded it all in for a compact mirrorless system, I still don't get on with it then it probably is that I need to jack photography in. I'll lose a few quid in the process, but at least I gave it a second chance and will know for sure.

This does mean I now I have kit I'd like to get rid of, If anyone wants a lightly used EOS 7D (in perfect physical condition) + some lenses, Speedlite, CF cards, bag etc etc then email/PM me I guess!

[Simpo Two]

I'd get the Sony now and live with them side by side for a few months, then you won't have to guess.

[binliner]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Hi all
Are there any other options in this arena that posses a view finder?

Fuji XE-1

It has a nice hi-res electronic viewfinder, image quality is superb as it has the APS-C sensor and processor from the more expensive but x-pro1 (I'm a 7D owner and can honestly say the IQ from the little Fuji is better!), simple to use and it is a lot more attractive than the Sony!

Lens selection is currently small but there are more lenses coming this year.

Edited by binliner on Tuesday 18th December 22:42

[Otispunkmeyer]

binliner said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

Hi all
Are there any other options in this arena that posses a view finder?

Fuji XE-1

It has a nice hi-res electronic viewfinder, image quality is superb as it has the APS-C sensor and processor from the more expensive but x-pro1 (I'm a 7D owner and can honestly say the IQ from the little Fuji is better!), simple to use and it is a lot more attractive than the Sony!

Lens selection is currently small but there are more lenses coming this year.

Edited by binliner on Tuesday 18th December 22:42

Will look it up! The Sony is an APS-C sensor as well, don't think I'd wanna go much smaller.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Simpo Two said:

I'd get the Sony now and live with them side by side for a few months, then you won't have to guess.

Not sure I can afford to do that! Well I can, but I would rather not put myself into a situation where I could be sailing close to the wind so would prefer to sell up first. Gotta get all the Christmas expenditure out the way first, then a major service for the Honda. Thankfully there is a Sony centre not too far from here, so I intend to get some free hands on time.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Otispunkmeyer said:

binliner said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

Hi all
Are there any other options in this arena that posses a view finder?

Fuji XE-1

It has a nice hi-res electronic viewfinder, image quality is superb as it has the APS-C sensor and processor from the more expensive but x-pro1 (I'm a 7D owner and can honestly say the IQ from the little Fuji is better!), simple to use and it is a lot more attractive than the Sony!

Lens selection is currently small but there are more lenses coming this year.

Edited by binliner on Tuesday 18th December 22:42

Will look it up! The Sony is an APS-C sensor as well, don't think I'd wanna go much smaller.

Fuji looks nice, the sensor is very interesting, though I am a bit unsure about the relatively low-tech back. A 2.8 screen with 460k dots is a bit low IMO considering what you can get now. Especially as you will likely be using the screen a lot more with it not having a proper optical finder. This is where I think the Sony and Olympus are better for offering an articulated screen that gives you some extra flexibility for shooting from the hip level.

The lens selection also appears even more sparse than what sony offer!

[mrmr96]

One of my mates has been through this recently, he bought a PowerShot G1X
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

About £350-£380 http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&amp...

[Otispunkmeyer]

mrmr96 said:

One of my mates has been through this recently, he bought a PowerShot G1X
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

About £350-£380 http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&amp...

Yes did consider one of these. However, I am not sure I want to be completely out of the interchangeable lens game.

[mrmr96]

Otispunkmeyer said:

mrmr96 said:

One of my mates has been through this recently, he bought a PowerShot G1X
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

About £350-£380 http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&amp...

Yes did consider one of these. However, I am not sure I want to be completely out of the interchangeable lens game.

I think you can still screw stuff onto it if you want, like a 2x zoom or a wide angle adapter. I THINK.

Another alternative would be the Canon EOS M:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...




Uses EF-M lenses, but you can fit EF and EF-S lenses using via Mount adapter "EF-EOS M"
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

[Otispunkmeyer]

mrmr96 said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

mrmr96 said:

One of my mates has been through this recently, he bought a PowerShot G1X
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

About £350-£380 http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&amp...

Yes did consider one of these. However, I am not sure I want to be completely out of the interchangeable lens game.

I think you can still screw stuff onto it if you want, like a 2x zoom or a wide angle adapter. I THINK.

Another alternative would be the Canon EOS M:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...




Uses EF-M lenses, but you can fit EF and EF-S lenses using via Mount adapter "EF-EOS M"
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cam...

Going off the reviews it sounds like this camera misses the mark. I guess it was more aimed at those moving up from compacts and bridge cameras than those looking to keep the big SLR performance but in a smaller body. Apparently the AF speed on this thing is awful.

To be honest I thing its a straight up fight between the NEX-6 and the Olympus OM-D E-M5. The Olympus is a good deal more expensive, but it does have some features that warrant the extra price such as 5-axis in body IS and weather sealing. However, I can get the sony with the new 16-50mm power zoom and the 55-210mm for less than the price of the Olympus body. Having looked at lots of sample images from the two lenses they look absolutely fine to me (certainly no worse than what I am used to with the kit I have) and performance wise the sony really doesnt give much away to the Olympus and in some areas bests it. So its looking like the choice for me at the moment. I just have to sell up first and find somewhere where I can maybe get both side by side for a final decision.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Wednesday 19th December 20:07

[RobDickinson]

The EOS M is a great little tool, the focus though isnt great for things that move or pub/night-life shooting.
It also lacks a viewfinder which the op wanted.

I found it a great little camera though and often had more fun with it than the 5d2. I'd pick it with the 22mm pancake.

If your not keeping the canon glass then the oly OM-D I think has to be a forerunner?

[Otispunkmeyer]

RobDickinson said:

The EOS M is a great little tool, the focus though isnt great for things that move or pub/night-life shooting.
It also lacks a viewfinder which the op wanted.

I found it a great little camera though and often had more fun with it than the 5d2. I'd pick it with the 22mm pancake.

If your not keeping the canon glass then the oly OM-D I think has to be a forerunner?

It is the bee's knees of course, but I am drawn to the Sony. Only playing with both is going to help me now I think because its going to come down to how they feel in the hand, how fast they are (they both seem very quick, with the OM having the edge, but some reviewers have noted that while the AF is very eager to focus, its not always focusing on what you want...so in that case the minor speed advantage is null) and how awful the menu systems are.

[binliner]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Fuji looks nice, the sensor is very interesting, though I am a bit unsure about the relatively low-tech back. A 2.8 screen with 460k dots is a bit low IMO considering what you can get now. Especially as you will likely be using the screen a lot more with it not having a proper optical finder. This is where I think the Sony and Olympus are better for offering an articulated screen that gives you some extra flexibility for shooting from the hip level.

The lens selection also appears even more sparse than what sony offer!

Viewfinder is very good, when I used the x-pro1 which has a switchable optical/electronic viewfinder I had it on electronic pretty much all the time

Fuji is where my money would go but It sounds like you've got your heart set on the Sony

[Otispunkmeyer]

binliner said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

Fuji looks nice, the sensor is very interesting, though I am a bit unsure about the relatively low-tech back. A 2.8 screen with 460k dots is a bit low IMO considering what you can get now. Especially as you will likely be using the screen a lot more with it not having a proper optical finder. This is where I think the Sony and Olympus are better for offering an articulated screen that gives you some extra flexibility for shooting from the hip level.

The lens selection also appears even more sparse than what sony offer!

Viewfinder is very good, when I used the x-pro1 which has a switchable optical/electronic viewfinder I had it on electronic pretty much all the time

Fuji is where my money would go but It sounds like you've got your heart set on the Sony

Images from the Fuji look fabulous due to how that sensor works. Thats a really big selling point, but I think the rest of the package lets it down slightly. I'd probably regret buying it to be honest. The view finder sounds like its the same one in the NEX-6/7 which is to say its a near 2.4 million dot affair. According to Kai at DigitalRev the Sony viewfinder has less lag. I would love excellent IQ, but on balance I think I can sacrifice a bit there for some of the features offered by the Sony (and the Olympus).

I actually managed to find an NEX-6 to play with today...

by the way its amazing in the retail shops... no wonder people don't buy there, no staff to help, lots of things locked away in glass cupboards, in Currys they had an NEX-F3 on the stand advertising the NEX-5R, they didn't even have a 5R in stock. Lots of things with no batteries so you can't get a feel for them anyway. All in all, the one advantage B&M shops have which is access the physical product and they make a complete hash of it. It might as well be a scruffy jpg on the internet. Its no better.

... carrying on...

Had a play with the NEX-6 in the sony store (after they got it out the back for me). Very taken by it, its nice to hold, its a good size (not too small, not too big) the menu system seems ok (would probably take a few weeks, but its definitely helped by having the mode/control dials at the top). AF was insanely quick... I though the NEX-5R was quick when I tried that, but this was in another league. Almost instant for the most part. Going off the reviews as well the pro-sumer level lenses aren't as terrible as those sort of kit lenses tend to be. They look plenty sharp for my money but the Fuji really is better in this regard, That is the one to get if ultimate IQ from a mirrorless is your quest.

In general though, the basic controls felt really good, quick access to the core modes and adjustments, nice button action and in general a very responsive camera. Even has a built in flash which I like... I am not a fan of having a clip on jobby in the box, its just another thing to carry around and is a another thing to faff about with. No thanks. Really like the sweep pano mode, the articulating screen and the 10 fps burst mode (with AF no less! if i read the reviews right).

I think I have made my mind up.

[PJ S]

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread... - read the first half dozen pages or so to get a feel for it.

[Otispunkmeyer]

PJ S said:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread... - read the first half dozen pages or so to get a feel for it.

That's for the X10/X100 ? Or do they break into the X-E1/X-Pro1 talk later down?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Looking at more Fuji sample images. st.

(It's creeping into the running. Gonna have a hell of time finding one to play with though.)

[PJ S]

Otispunkmeyer said:

That's for the X10/X100 ? Or do they break into the X-E1/X-Pro1 talk later down?

X100 has its own thread, if I'm not mistaken.
Think the Pro should do too, but E1 one might be MIA.

Pro 1 this way ——>
XE1 ——>
X100 ——>

[LongQ]

Sony you say? How about the RX-1?

Might be pushing the budget a bit.

[Xaero]

OP, it sounds like you've already decided on the NEX-6, you've not talked about much else. So just buy it. It's in budget, you like it, it's what you've researched the most, etc. Time to pull the trigger.

Shame the lens selection is cack on that system though :P

(Former NEX owner).