We all know about Mezger but what about the new ones?
Discussion
roofrack996 said:
I have read lots on here about Mr M and his design prowess and was wondering who designed the new water-cooled engines (that we all love to hate).
Based on some of the posts on here I would assume they are in a CIA style protection programme!
I assume by this you mean the 'old' water-cooled engines? Based on some of the posts on here I would assume they are in a CIA style protection programme!
The current 9A1 series motors (the 'new' water-cooled engines) so far seem more-or-less faultless.
There are really 2 components influencing the end product of an engine.
1. Engine mechanical design.
Most engines develop as an evolution from a prototype evolving into a production model. I am sure Mezger's designs will have influenced the design of the occasionally chocolate engines installed in the cooking versions of the 996/7 water cooled cars.
The GT and Turbo engines evolved from the earlier air cooled lump.
The huge similarity lies in the fact that they are all flat six, 4 valve, chain driven DOHC, rear mounted, water cooled and share a significant amount ancillary parts.
2. Engine production process.
The crucial factor that defines the 2 types of engine is that production engineering of the cooking engine was developed by Toyota who were tasked to design a more efficient engine production process that would help Porsche to produce large numbers of engines profitably. I believe that it is for this reason the defects in engine design could not be rectified quickly because there would have been a BIG cost to re engineer the production process and machinery.
The GT and Turbo engines continued to be manufactured in the same old (inefficient) way as Mezger had evolved and hence did not fall prey to the same production engineered weaknesses.
So, as a previous poster has said, the accountants will have played a big part in a) making Porsche profitable and b) presiding over a structurally inferior engine.
Lets hope the new production process does not produce any more gremlins!
1. Engine mechanical design.
Most engines develop as an evolution from a prototype evolving into a production model. I am sure Mezger's designs will have influenced the design of the occasionally chocolate engines installed in the cooking versions of the 996/7 water cooled cars.
The GT and Turbo engines evolved from the earlier air cooled lump.
The huge similarity lies in the fact that they are all flat six, 4 valve, chain driven DOHC, rear mounted, water cooled and share a significant amount ancillary parts.
2. Engine production process.
The crucial factor that defines the 2 types of engine is that production engineering of the cooking engine was developed by Toyota who were tasked to design a more efficient engine production process that would help Porsche to produce large numbers of engines profitably. I believe that it is for this reason the defects in engine design could not be rectified quickly because there would have been a BIG cost to re engineer the production process and machinery.
The GT and Turbo engines continued to be manufactured in the same old (inefficient) way as Mezger had evolved and hence did not fall prey to the same production engineered weaknesses.
So, as a previous poster has said, the accountants will have played a big part in a) making Porsche profitable and b) presiding over a structurally inferior engine.
Lets hope the new production process does not produce any more gremlins!
agtlaw said:
Which engines did Mezger design?
All of the air cooled and all of the racing engines up to the GT1.He had nothing to do with the 996 M96 but Porsche reverted to the GT1 block for the GT cars but used water cooled heads.
The 9A1 has been with us now for 4 years but Porsche are using the GT1 block next year in the 991 GT3 cup car!
roofrack996 said:
So to refine the question:
1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
Someone here said one UK mag did a piece on the Porsche engine issue. Did anybody read it, anything new?1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
roofrack996 said:
So to refine the question:
1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
The answer to your first question is Harm Lagaay.1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
mollytherocker said:
agtlaw said:
Which engines did Mezger design?
All of the air cooled and all of the racing engines up to the GT1.He had nothing to do with the 996 M96 but Porsche reverted to the GT1 block for the GT cars but used water cooled heads.
The 9A1 has been with us now for 4 years but Porsche are using the GT1 block next year in the 991 GT3 cup car!
roofrack996 said:
So to refine the question:
1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
1. Hans Mezger was involved in the design of the M96 engine.1. Who was the Chief designer for the m96 series?
2. Who was the head of engine production?
And I suppose,
(3. Who was head of accounts?)
I am not on a witch hunt just interested in the people involved in the production of this series.
From his book,
"Dr Wiedeking has been made CEO in late 1992. It was announced that there would be a new engine, a water cooled flat 6, and a new mid-engined car, the Boxster. I stayed there another two years, after the end of the F1 project, working on the new production car development. A few of my people were invited to join that work. I am still paid for a patent on the 996 engine. In the sump housing there was a water pipe passing through it. I said it wouldn't cost anything if they used this to warm up the oil when it's cold because water gets hot much faster. When the engine is hot the water stays at around 95C so you can also use it to cool the oil. There were a lot of people who were fully involved in that project and they came to me to ask if I would go to the management to get them to change some things so that the engine would be more suitable for racing. The engine wasn't a real dry sump. It was what they called an integrated dry sump. It wasn't bad but when it came to the GT3 and the new turbo they used the full dry sump we has developed before.
agtlaw said:
1. Hans Mezger was involved in the design of the M96 engine.
From his book,
"Dr Wiedeking has been made CEO in late 1992. It was announced that there would be a new engine, a water cooled flat 6, and a new mid-engined car, the Boxster. I stayed there another two years, after the end of the F1 project, working on the new production car development. A few of my people were invited to join that work. I am still paid for a patent on the 996 engine. In the sump housing there was a water pipe passing through it. I said it wouldn't cost anything if they used this to warm up the oil when it's cold because water gets hot much faster. When the engine is hot the water stays at around 95C so you can also use it to cool the oil. There were a lot of people who were fully involved in that project and they came to me to ask if I would go to the management to get them to change some things so that the engine would be more suitable for racing. The engine wasn't a real dry sump. It was what they called an integrated dry sump. It wasn't bad but when it came to the GT3 and the new turbo they used the full dry sump we has developed before.
Can't really understand where your coming from with your posts. In you previous post to this one you imply Hans Mezger had no input into the GT1 Block as he was "retired" But then go on to post a quote from his autobiography in which he states "when it came to the gt3 and turbo they used the full dry sump we had developed before"?? From his book,
"Dr Wiedeking has been made CEO in late 1992. It was announced that there would be a new engine, a water cooled flat 6, and a new mid-engined car, the Boxster. I stayed there another two years, after the end of the F1 project, working on the new production car development. A few of my people were invited to join that work. I am still paid for a patent on the 996 engine. In the sump housing there was a water pipe passing through it. I said it wouldn't cost anything if they used this to warm up the oil when it's cold because water gets hot much faster. When the engine is hot the water stays at around 95C so you can also use it to cool the oil. There were a lot of people who were fully involved in that project and they came to me to ask if I would go to the management to get them to change some things so that the engine would be more suitable for racing. The engine wasn't a real dry sump. It was what they called an integrated dry sump. It wasn't bad but when it came to the GT3 and the new turbo they used the full dry sump we has developed before.
He retired from Porsche on 1st October 1993. I've gathered from the book that the last engine he worked on was the M96. There's no mention at all of the GT1, which pre-dated the GT3.
In fact I've just found an appendix with a list of "landmark engines in the Hans Mezger story." The last one listed is the 1990 type 3512 V12.
In fact I've just found an appendix with a list of "landmark engines in the Hans Mezger story." The last one listed is the 1990 type 3512 V12.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff