what is bhp?
Author
Discussion

cra1gy1989

Original Poster:

293 posts

174 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
As the title says... I say to my freinds and family or who ever asks, I have 400bhp, the question is... what is a bhp? How is it measured? Sorry to all the hardcore engine fanatics who are shaking there heads with shame... just a question!

deadtom

2,769 posts

195 months

troc

4,087 posts

205 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
cra1gy1989 said:
As the title says... I say to my freinds and family or who ever asks, I have 400bhp, the question is... what is a bhp? How is it measured? Sorry to all the hardcore engine fanatics who are shaking there heads with shame... just a question!
Edit: meh I was too slow smile

scottdd

39 posts

166 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all

cra1gy1989

Original Poster:

293 posts

174 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
Hahaha that was funny!

xRIEx

8,180 posts

178 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
cra1gy1989 said:
I say to my freinds and family or who ever asks, I have 400bhp...
How much do I not want to get stuck in a lift with you.

cra1gy1989

Original Poster:

293 posts

174 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
cra1gy1989 said:
I say to my freinds and family or who ever asks, I have 400bhp...
How much do I not want to get stuck in a lift with you.
Haha, tosser......tongue out

xRIEx

8,180 posts

178 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
cra1gy1989 said:
xRIEx said:
cra1gy1989 said:
I say to my freinds and family or who ever asks, I have 400bhp...
How much do I not want to get stuck in a lift with you.
Haha, tosser......tongue out
And that's the reason you don't want to be stuck in a lift with me wink

Benrad

657 posts

179 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
I may have to answer this question in an exam in jan so hopefully nobody minds if I indulge in a little revision.

Power is the rate at which energy is transfered. Brake power is the actual power that leaves the engine after frictional losses, can be measured at the flywheel or the wheels.

Mathematically it's brake torque multiplied by revs

xRIEx

8,180 posts

178 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
Benrad said:
Brake power is the actual power that leaves the engine after frictional losses...
I thought it was before frictional losses, is that wrong?

Zad

13,013 posts

266 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
It is 298.3 kiloWatts.

Or 2983 100-Watt lightbulbs.

Or 298 1-bar electric fires.

Or 119 2.5kW kettles

Or... VROOMMM VROOM WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE driving


Benrad

657 posts

179 months

Wednesday 19th December 2012
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
I thought it was before frictional losses, is that wrong?
Depends, bhp is very imprecise. If you're talking power at the flywheel then this includes frictional losses from the engine but not the gearbox. Power before any frictional losses is called indicated power and is obtained by integrating the P-V diagram, in a way this is the energy it was possible to extract from the fuel minus volumetric (air flow restrictions through the engine) and thermal (heat dumped into the cooling system and exhaust) losses.

Perhaps it's the gearbox frictional losses you're thinking of?

xRIEx

8,180 posts

178 months

Thursday 20th December 2012
quotequote all
Benrad said:
xRIEx said:
I thought it was before frictional losses, is that wrong?
Depends, bhp is very imprecise. If you're talking power at the flywheel then this includes frictional losses from the engine but not the gearbox. Power before any frictional losses is called indicated power and is obtained by integrating the P-V diagram, in a way this is the energy it was possible to extract from the fuel minus volumetric (air flow restrictions through the engine) and thermal (heat dumped into the cooling system and exhaust) losses.

Perhaps it's the gearbox frictional losses you're thinking of?
I always understood 'brake' to refer to the power at the flywheel, after the De Prony brake that was used to measure power at the flywheel (or output shaft). I know that now (on car dynamometers, at least) HP* is measured at the wheels then BHP is calculated taking into account frictional losses on deceleration.


 *[pedant]Torque is measured by the dyno[/pedant]

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

295 months

Thursday 20th December 2012
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
Benrad said:
xRIEx said:
I thought it was before frictional losses, is that wrong?
Depends, bhp is very imprecise. If you're talking power at the flywheel then this includes frictional losses from the engine but not the gearbox. Power before any frictional losses is called indicated power and is obtained by integrating the P-V diagram, in a way this is the energy it was possible to extract from the fuel minus volumetric (air flow restrictions through the engine) and thermal (heat dumped into the cooling system and exhaust) losses.

Perhaps it's the gearbox frictional losses you're thinking of?
I always understood 'brake' to refer to the power at the flywheel, after the De Prony brake that was used to measure power at the flywheel (or output shaft). I know that now (on car dynamometers, at least) HP* is measured at the wheels then BHP is calculated taking into account frictional losses on deceleration.


 *[pedant]Torque is measured by the dyno[/pedant]
OEMs measure BHP (or PS or kW) at the flywheel using an engine dyno.

stevesingo

5,044 posts

252 months

Thursday 20th December 2012
quotequote all

Benrad said:
Depends, bhp is very imprecise.
BHP is very precise according to SAE/DIN specifications. How it is measured is where the imprecision lies. As stated, OEM BHP is measured at the engine flywheel with ancillaries attached. What some rolling roads do is measure the wheel torque, do some maths (lb/ft*rmp/5252) and come up with wheel power. They also measure some of the losses and add the two together to come up with flywheel power. This is not so precise.

The term horse power was brought about by James Watt who, when trying to convince coal mine owners that a steam engine was better than a horse, compared the amount of work done by his steam engines to the amount of work done by the horses. He measured the work done by several horses and came up with a figure of 1hp=550lb raised 10ft in 10 seconds. The modern metric equivalent is 75kg 10 metres in 10 seconds, stated in PS or CV. This also has an ISO metric of 1000N (or 98.1kg) raised 10metres in 10 seconds and this is a KW.

The brake reference is to the method used to measure power which is more convenient than lifting a weight up. The brake applies a load to the engine and the torque is measured, torque being a unit of rotational force as opposed to vertical force i.e our 550lb weight. All we need to calculate the horse power is the speed which is the engine speed in rpm. lb/ft*rmp/5252.

https://www.tdi-plc.com/files/Rototest_white_paper...


Zad said:
It is 298.3 kiloWatts.

Or 2983 100-Watt lightbulbs.

Or 298 1-bar electric fires.

Or 119 2.5kW kettles

Or... VROOMMM VROOM WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE driving
That is 400bhp.

Benrad

657 posts

179 months

Thursday 20th December 2012
quotequote all
From these responses we are talking about different frictional losses. The ones in the gearbox etc which have to be taken into account on a wheel dyno and the ones in the engine which are the difference between brake power and mean power