RE: Speed not a major cause of road deaths: official
RE: Speed not a major cause of road deaths: official
Wednesday 8th September 2004

Speed not a major cause of road deaths: official

London cash camera group rapped for misleading advert


The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has upheld a complaint that an advert placed by the London Safety Camera Partnership stating that:

"Speeding causes over a quarter of all deaths on London's roads"

was misleading.

However, it did not uphold the complainant's second claim, that reductions in death and serious injury resulted from speed reduction caused by other factors, such as an increase in traffic, rather than the introduction of speed cameras.

The complainant objected that:

1. the claim "Speeding causes over a quarter of all deaths on London's roads" was misleading, because he believed speed was a contributing factor rather than the single cause of a quarter of road deaths and

2. the claim "where I operate, drivers slow down, resulting in a reduction in death and serious injury at London's traffic black spots by up to 30 per cent" was misleading, because he believed the reduction in death and serious injury resulted from speed reduction caused by other factors, such as an increase in traffic, rather than the introduction of speed cameras.

1. Complaint upheld

The advertisers said the claim was based on an analysis of Metropolitan and City of London Police records by Transport for London. The advertisers explained that, after a collision took place, the police assessed which factors had contributed to the accident and, based on those factors, decided the most appropriate causation code to record for the accident.

The advertisers stated that, in a three-year period ending in December 2003, 228 fatalities were recorded under four causation codes associated with speeding: going too fast having regard to the road environment; going too fast having regard to other road users; losing control; and driving too close to the vehicle in front.

They argued that, because the total number of road fatalities for that period was 850, the figures showed that speeding was the main cause of 26.8 per cent of the road fatalities in London.

They said that was corroborated by the Web site of the Devon & Cornwall Constabulary, which stated that speeding caused around 1,200 fatalities annually.

They argued that, given that total road fatality numbers nationally were 3,700, this showed that 32% of fatalities annually were caused by speeding.

The advertisers also asserted that research showed that the probability of a collision being fatal increased exponentially in relation to the speed of the vehicle involved.

The ASA understood that none of the factors identified by the advertisers necessarily involved a vehicle exceeding the speed limit. The Authority considered that the claim would be understood by readers to mean that vehicles that exceeded the speed limit had caused a quarter of all deaths on London's roads and not that speed was merely a contributory factor in a quarter of fatal accidents.

The ASA then concluded that the claim was misleading and told the advertisers to amend the claim; it advised them to do so with the assistance of the CAP Copy Advice team.

2. Complaint not upheld

The advertisers said they had not claimed that the reduction in people killed or seriously injured (KSI) was due to cameras alone, but merely that, where cameras had been placed, KSI reductions had followed.

They sent an academic paper that discussed speeding behaviour and collision involvement in car drivers in Scotland. It reported that research had shown that there were fewer speeding vehicles at sites where cameras were installed.

The advertisers said the statistic in the claim was based on their own records and was in line with current national Department for Transport (DfT) statistics. They said the term "black spots" referred to those areas where there had been at least five KSIs before a camera was installed. They asserted that an average KSI reduction of 24 per cent had occurred at those locations. The advertisers sent a spreadsheet that recorded KSI reductions at 112 camera sites in London up to 31 December 2000.

The advertisers asserted that, at sites without cameras, the average annual reduction in KSIs was approximately 2-3 per cent. The advertisers sent a DfT two-year pilot evaluation research paper, published in 2003, and the West London Speed Camera Demonstration Project report, published in 1997.

The DfT pilot research stated that, nationally, KSIs had fallen by 35 per cent on roads where speed cameras were installed, compared to the long-term trend. The other report compared accident data before and after the installation of cameras in a West London trial area.

The ASA noted from the December 2000 spreadsheet that, of the 112 camera sites listed, 23 were traffic black spots. It noted, after the installation of cameras at those black spots, KSIs fell by between 33 per cent and 100 per cent. The Authority noted the West London trial report stated that, relative to control data, 12.1 per cent only of KSI reduction was directly attributable to the presence of speed cameras. It understood that KSI figures for all of London were not available in the DfT pilot research; full KSI statistics for London would not be available from the DfT until the autumn.

Because the DfT's June 2004 speed camera report stated that, nationally, there was a 40 per cent reduction in KSIs at sites where speed cameras were installed, the Authority considered that the evidence sent by the advertisers showed that, in general, a reduction in KSIs followed the installation of speed cameras.

It considered that, although full KSI statistics for London were not yet available, it was reasonable to assume that KSI reductions in London would follow the national trend. Because of that, the Authority concluded that the advertisers had justified the claim.

 

 

Author
Discussion

jam1et

Original Poster:

1,536 posts

275 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
Why on earth is 'driving too close to the vehicle in front' and 'losing control' included in the statistics in the first place?

People drive too close in varying circumstances but usually when there is increased traffic. I would say its far more likely that people drive closer together when traffic is heavy and moving slower, rather than at high/excessive speed.

Losing control of a vehicle can happen for any number of reasons for christs sake! I bet most occurances are when people are not paying attention to their driving rather than through loss of grip due to excessive speed.

frederixie

1,618 posts

306 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
Isn't speed the cause of ALL road deaths?
If everyone went zero mph, I'm sure there would be no more accidents, ever

Big fan of speed camera's at truly dangerous crossings, they do work, methinks...

aww999

2,078 posts

284 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
Agree with the points above, I'd just like to add a big "Good work chap!" to the person who took the time to challenge this latest tripe from the lieing scumbags.

james_j

3,996 posts

278 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
aww999 said:
I'd just like to add a big "Good work chap!" to the person who took the time to challenge this latest tripe from the lieing scumbags.


Yes indeed!

stackmonkey

5,083 posts

272 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
12% only of the KSI reduction was directly attributable to the speed cameras

That's the first time I've seen any statistic (other than Safespeed) that removes the 'regression to mean' effect. I bet Paul would like to see the raw data for that.

v8thunder

27,647 posts

281 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
I'd say it was blindingly obvious that excessive speed wasn't the main cause of RTAs in London - there's always a jam. You could lower the speed limit to 10 mph and no-one would break it because they wouldn't be able to! I'd say the biggest cause of inner-city road deaths was people driving close together and people running out between parked cars into this tightly-packed jam. In fact I'd say the part of the pedestrian in accidents needs to be investigated further and without prejudice. After all, in a city there are more pedestrians than cars!

D-Angle

4,468 posts

265 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all

Take that, you gravy train riding pond scum!

I think he might have had more luck with the second point if he had said that it could give the impression that the reduction in KSI's is solely due to speed cameras.

Either way, bloody result!

Streetcop

5,907 posts

261 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street

bogush

481 posts

289 months

Wednesday 8th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street


That's why trains are limited to 186mph, no doubt.

For the moment.

If it's acceptable to have a head on at 60, or even just 50, on a single carriageway, or sandwich a pedestrian between to cars doing 50 or 60:

Why can't we do 100, or even 120, on a single carriageway?

safespeed

2,983 posts

297 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
stackmonkey said:
12% only of the KSI reduction was directly attributable to the speed cameras

That's the first time I've seen any statistic (other than Safespeed) that removes the 'regression to mean' effect. I bet Paul would like to see the raw data for that.


The figures as stated cannot be right - or at least not as we're expected to assume them to be. I'd confidently suggest that the site selection criteria are not the same at the "other sites". They might even be talking about "all roads away from cameras", in which case the reduction is due to vehicle safety improvements and so on. We *know* that we get an average RTTM error of some considerable size if we select sites on the basis of a three year accident history.

But there are suitable conrol sites in every camera partnership area. These are the sites that have been earmarked for a camera o the basis of crash history, but for some practical reason a camera was not installed. If we had the figures for these sites, I'm quite certain we'd had evidence of a RTTM error approaching 50%.

Apache

39,731 posts

307 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street


Kinda like saying step off a kerb is ok but step off a house is not ok. Obvious stuff that we should be allowed to judge for ourselves I feel. On a different tack, do you think the backlash from this is going to create more problems?

ledfoot

777 posts

275 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..
Street



I am still alive Streetcop

I break every speed limit every day, and have done for the last 25 years.

Why is it that I am not dead ?

safespeed

2,983 posts

297 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high.


There are two huge problems with that oversimplified point of view.

Firstly there's massive disparity between free travelling speeds and crash "delta v". (crash delta v being change of speed during impact). The gap between free travelling speed and crash delta v is largely road user response - we slow down in areas of danger and we brake before impact. It's likely that high emphasis on numerical speed will dull driver responses to the extent that average impacts become more severe. Don't forget that all the time we are driving we are striving to avoid impacts altogether, but the effect of policy applies all the time - not just when we crash.

Secondly we would use the argument to incrementally reduce all speeds to zero. 29 is safer than 30, 28 is safer than 29 and so on. There's no right speed to crash, but there is a right speed to drive - it isn't defined by the speed limit - it is defined by the immediate conditions. We need safe speed behaviour, not blind obedience to arbitrary speed limits.

james_j

3,996 posts

278 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
safespeed said:

Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high.



There are two huge problems with that oversimplified point of view.

Firstly there's massive disparity between free travelling speeds and crash "delta v". (crash delta v being change of speed during impact). The gap between free travelling speed and crash delta v is largely road user response - we slow down in areas of danger and we brake before impact. It's likely that high emphasis on numerical speed will dull driver responses to the extent that average impacts become more severe. Don't forget that all the time we are driving we are striving to avoid impacts altogether, but the effect of policy applies all the time - not just when we crash.

Secondly we would use the argument to incrementally reduce all speeds to zero. 29 is safer than 30, 28 is safer than 29 and so on. There's no right speed to crash, but there is a right speed to drive - it isn't defined by the speed limit - it is defined by the immediate conditions. We need safe speed behaviour, not blind obedience to arbitrary speed limits.


Well said.

I think this argument is key to the whole "speeding" argument.

I am convinced that the prime thought in the minds of the "speed kills" people is just what Streetcop said.

It's easy to say and an easy comment to come up with. But, as with many things in life which appear at first to be simple, the matter needs some deeper thought.

TripleS

4,294 posts

265 months

Thursday 9th September 2004
quotequote all
ledfoot said:

Streetcop said:

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..
Street




I am still alive Streetcop

I break every speed limit every day, and have done for the last 25 years.

Why is it that I am not dead ?


I really can not imagine ledfoot, but I am similarly mystified, except that my 'speeding' dates back at least 47 years. It would appear we must be doing something right, so carry on along the same lines say I. Just try to avoid getting caught.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

hornet

6,333 posts

273 months

Friday 10th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street


No shit. I wasn't aware our entire road safety policy was based around stating the bleeding obvious. How does that statement help us understand what's CAUSING the accidents? It's certainly not speed per se, otherwise our motorways would be war zones.

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

300 months

Friday 10th September 2004
quotequote all
Why can people not make a distinction between primary and secondary safety? Primary - avoid accident. Secondary - reduce consequences of unavoidable accident.

As Street confirms, and Paul (SafeSpeed) so eloquently explains, speed limits are actually about secondary safety - as are seat belts, air bags (well they are actually not even secondary, they are to protect the duffers who ignore the belts), crumple zones and all the other safety features built in to cars.

Primary safety is about being aware of hazards and avoiding them. Monitoring the road for cameras, speed limits, scamera vans, and in turn monitoring the speedo, does very little to improve primary safety.

Streetcop

5,907 posts

261 months

Friday 10th September 2004
quotequote all
hornet said:

Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street



No shit.?


I'm not shitting you...it's true..

Street

mrmaggit

10,146 posts

271 months

Friday 10th September 2004
quotequote all
Streetcop said:

hornet said:


Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street




No shit.?



I'm not shitting you...it's true..

Street


Well fancy that!

Streetcop

5,907 posts

261 months

Friday 10th September 2004
quotequote all
mrmaggit said:

Streetcop said:


hornet said:



Streetcop said:
I think the point we need to remember though is this;

the chances of being killed or seriously injured in a collision (not pedestrian) is high if the speed is high..

Street





No shit.?




I'm not shitting you...it's true..

Street



Well fancy that!


Hey...you're preaching to the converted..I was shocked too

Street