China's answer to the C-17

[jbi]

Fresh off the press, here's the first spy shots of China's new heavy lifter (Y-20)

Looks like arguably the biggest gap in Chinese domestic military aviation is about to be closed.

Edited by jbi on Monday 24th December 21:03

[Big News]

It looks like someone's fed too many Krispy Kremes to a BAe 146

[jbi]

it certainly is a fat bugger, no doubt about that

Apparently those Russian engines are stand-in's while domestic high-bypass engines are being finalized.

[Brigand]

Looks a lot like an Ilyushin-76:



Are they building them under licence perhaps? Either that or its a rip-off of a Il-76 and a C-17!

[mph1977]

both the C17 and IL-76 fulfill similar roles (strategic lift with theatre entry /rough field ability) hence their layout similarities... it's unsurprising that the Chinese wouldn't produce an aircraft of this type,especially given the numbers and international penetration of the C17 (NATO's standard strategic airlift aircraft, plus Qatar,AUS and India to name but a few)


The BAe 146 while not originally designed as a military tactical airlifter (and being rather smaller than the C17 or the IL76)shares a similar layout because of the Short field performance abilities-the BAe146's four engine layout was for noise reasons at the time of it's design, the reduced FOD potential from the smaller turbine discs(and therefore smaller diameter of the engines)was a secondary factor-which appears to be giving it a second lease of life as a tactical airlifter

http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_051960/bae-...

[topsparks]

Can't beat the real thing !

[AnotherClarkey]

topsparks said:

Can't beat the real thing !

You never know, it might be better.

[JW911]

AnotherClarkey said:

topsparks said:

Can't beat the real thing !

You never know, it might be better.

Probably not but it'll almost certainly be cheaper.

[anonymous-user]

AnotherClarkey said:

topsparks said:

Can't beat the real thing !

You never know, it might be better.

lol

[topsparks]

If its anything like their An124's,it will have a full analogue cockpit with a 7 man crew to fly it (fueled by vodka) and built like a brick out house!.It did make me laugh that they were so worried about damaging their titanium floor that it was covered in sheets of shuttering ply!

[mybrainhurts]

Bloody hell, that's not going to fly over us, is it? Remember compressed grass brake pads..?

Built by Wing A Na Plair Frying Machine Clumpany...?

What's it called, Crispy Duck..?

[jbi]

here's the estimated specification... take with a pinch of salt.

Y-20

General characteristics
Crew: 3
Payload: 60 tonnes ()
Length: 47 m ()
Wingspan: 50 m ()
Height: 15 m ()
Wing area: 310 m² ()
Empty weight: 100,000 kg ()
Max. takeoff weight: 220,000 kg ()
Powerplant: 4 × Soloviev D-30KP-2 or WS-18, in the future WS-20 turbofans
Performance
Cruise speed: Mach 0.75
Range: 4,400 km with 60 tonne max payload ()
Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,700 ft)

Ilyushin Il-76

General characteristics
Crew: 5
Capacity: 50,000 kg (Il-76)[nb 1]
Payload: 50 tonnes ()
Length: 46.59 m (152 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 50.5 m (165 ft 8 in)
Height: 14.76 m (48 ft 5 in)
Wing area: 300.0 m² (3,229.2 ft²)
Empty weight: 92,500 kg (Il-76TD-90)[nb 2] (203,962 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 195,000 kg (Il-76)[nb 3] (429,975 lb (Il-76TD-90))
Powerplant: 4 × Aviadvigatel PS-90-76 turbofans, 171 kN (38,367 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 900 km/h (490 kt, 560 mph,) Mach 0.82 depending on altitude
Range: 4,300 km (Il-76)[nb 4] () with 50 tonne max payload
Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,700 ft)
Rate of climb: m/s (ft/min)
Wing loading: 566.7 kg/m² (Il-76M/T)[nb 5] (116.05 lb/ft² (Il-76M/T), 129.72 lb/ft² (Il-76MD/TD))
Thrust/weight: (Il-76)[nb 6]
minimal landing run: 450 m with thrust reversal

Boeing C-17 Globemaster III

General characteristics
Crew: 3: 2 pilots, 1 loadmaster
Capacity:
134 troops with palletized seats or
102 troops with standard centerline seats or
36 litter and 54 ambulatory patients or
Cargo, such as an M1 Abrams tank,[N 1][171] three Strykers, or six M1117 Armored Security Vehicles
Payload: 170,900 lb (77,519 kg) of cargo distributed at max over 18 463L master pallets or a mix of palletized cargo and vehicles
Length: 174 ft (53 m)
Wingspan: 169.8 ft (51.75 m)
Height: 55.1 ft (16.8 m)
Wing area: 3,800 ft² (353 m²)
Empty weight: 282,500 lb (128,100 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 585,000 lb (265,350 kg)
Powerplant: 4 × Pratt & Whitney F117-PW-100 turbofans, 40,440 lbf (180 kN) each
Fuel capacity: 35,546 U.S. gal (134,556 L)
Performance
Cruise speed: Mach 0.76 (450 knots, 515 mph, 830 km/h)
Range: 2,420 nmi[167] (2,785 mi, 4,482 km) ; 5,610 nmi (10,390 km) with paratroops[172]
Service ceiling: 45,000 ft (13,716 m)
Max. wing loading: 150 lb/ft² (750 kg/m²)
Minimum thrust/weight: 0.277
Takeoff run at MTOW: 7,600 ft (2,316 m)[167]
Landing distance: 3,500 ft (1,060 m)

Edited by jbi on Thursday 27th December 21:34

[David87]

So then, how long before a Chinese company decides to build a commercial jet aircraft (unless they have already?)?

[jbi]

David87 said:

So then, how long before a Chinese company decides to build a commercial jet aircraft (unless they have already?)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919

First flight is expected to take place in 2014, with deliveries scheduled for 2016.[4]

[David87]

jbi said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919

First flight is expected to take place in 2014, with deliveries scheduled for 2016.[4]

Thanks for that. I wonder if they'll sell many to airlines outside China?

[davepoth]

David87 said:

Thanks for that. I wonder if they'll sell many to airlines outside China?

Loads to Africa I should think.

[Harpo]

Ryanair.

Interest already made known.
Could be their next big order circa 250, plus in time the replacement of the present fleet of 305.
A large enough order to warrant a cracking price and the manufacture should be most eager to get a European airline onside.
Watch this space!

[Talksteer]

David87 said:

jbi said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919

First flight is expected to take place in 2014, with deliveries scheduled for 2016.[4]

Thanks for that. I wonder if they'll sell many to airlines outside China?

That said they have sold 360 in China and a token 12 to GE Leasing so not unsubstantial orders. The only issue is look at what the competition are doing.

The competition (firm orders)

A320 - 1687
A320 Neo - 1654
737 - 1994
737 Max - 1026

The problem with entering the airline market is that it is mature and global. Because it is mature it is difficult to gain an competitive advantage, the margins are slim and there isn't to much scope for using cheap labour to bring costs down. Note that the C919 is using foreign engines and avionics.

The most important difficulty is that the competition don't stay still and in the airline market unless you are very close (1% on fuel economy) you are nowhere and will get zero orders from anyone with a free choice.

What is more because the competition are constantly moving it's not like you can simply acquire the technology and then become competitive, nor will any of the incumbents sell you the technology for market access to China.

Where they may stand a chance is if the industry sees a significant technology shift be that open rotors, lithium air batteries or ceramic turbines. That said given that the 737-Max and A320-Neo are essentially modifications of existing designs with evolutionary engines both the majors have kept their powder dry for something interesting post 2020.

[mybrainhurts]

Harpo said:

Ryanair.

Interest already made known.
Could be their next big order circa 250, plus in time the replacement of the present fleet of 305.
A large enough order to warrant a cracking price and the manufacture should be most eager to get a European airline onside.
Watch this space!

No, thanks.

Final nail in the coffin of Ryanair for me, then.

No-one's getting me in an aircraft make out of pressed grass aluminium substitute, thank you very much...

[skyrover]

Latest pics







... and an article about it

http://thediplomat.com/2013/01/08/limited-liftoff-...