Pre cat Griff thoughts please
Discussion
Hi, after owning a Chim I am on the look out for a griff to see what it is you guys rate so highly!
Now my thoughts are to try and find a nice pre cat 400 as they appear to be the purist version.
What is the general feeling towards these cars? are the 500's much better or a different animal? are the pre cats looked down on as inferior or are all Griffs loved??
Especially interested in any first hand driving experience.
Thanks all and all the best for the new year
p.s. Griff growl? what's that then??
Now my thoughts are to try and find a nice pre cat 400 as they appear to be the purist version.
What is the general feeling towards these cars? are the 500's much better or a different animal? are the pre cats looked down on as inferior or are all Griffs loved??
Especially interested in any first hand driving experience.
Thanks all and all the best for the new year
p.s. Griff growl? what's that then??
As a massively sweeping generalisation, it's considered the later cars are put together a bit better. But by now it will largely depend on who owned the car you buy. If its a tinkerer it will be well fettled to within an inch of its life by now so there may well be little in it.
As for performance, a good 4.3 will keep pace with 5 litre cars. I've travelled to Le Mans in my 4.3 with a couple of 500's and never had them complain or wait for me.
I have a mate with a 4ltr Chim, and although it's pig ugly it's no slouch, especially now he's figured out that the right pedal has more travel than he obviously thought it did.
If you find a special 4litre per cat buy it and you won't be disappointed.
If you think you need more, a 4.3 or a 5.0 are much of a muchness, so buy on condition.
Unless you need power steering, in which case I think you're limited to the later cars. Personally, I'd avoid it like the plague because it seems more ruddy trouble than it's worth, but some love it so there its clearly down to personal choice.
Oh, and that fabulous V8 noise you love. It's a pre-cat.
5ltr cars need their exhausts modifying to produce something vaguely similar. But it's never as good
As for performance, a good 4.3 will keep pace with 5 litre cars. I've travelled to Le Mans in my 4.3 with a couple of 500's and never had them complain or wait for me.
I have a mate with a 4ltr Chim, and although it's pig ugly it's no slouch, especially now he's figured out that the right pedal has more travel than he obviously thought it did.
If you find a special 4litre per cat buy it and you won't be disappointed.
If you think you need more, a 4.3 or a 5.0 are much of a muchness, so buy on condition.
Unless you need power steering, in which case I think you're limited to the later cars. Personally, I'd avoid it like the plague because it seems more ruddy trouble than it's worth, but some love it so there its clearly down to personal choice.
Oh, and that fabulous V8 noise you love. It's a pre-cat.
5ltr cars need their exhausts modifying to produce something vaguely similar. But it's never as good
You want real life comparisons? When my 500 went to the dealer for some work they gave me a 4.0 Chimp as a courtesy car. As the work lasted a few weeks I got to know the 4.0 reasonably well and I can honestly say it felt slow in comparison to my 500. As for all the other suff I couldn't say but in direct performance terms the difference was notable to me.
Ps its fair to add the 4.0 Chim had cats
Ps its fair to add the 4.0 Chim had cats
Edited by RichB on Saturday 29th December 20:21
You want real life comparisons? When my 500 went to the dealer for some work they gave me a 4.0 Chimp as a courtesy car. As the work lasted a few weeks I got to know the 4.0 reasonably well and I can honestly say it felt slow in comparison to my 500. As for all the other suff I couldn't say but in direct performance terms the difference was notable to me.
Ps its fair to add the 4.0 Chim had cats
Ps its fair to add the 4.0 Chim had cats
Edited by RichB on Saturday 29th December 20:26
Great replies so far, thank you, I want back into TVR ownership as I enjoyed the Chim although it felt a touch slower then I though it would be, maybe the cam was finished?
I have seen what looks like a very nice pre cat 400 and the chap selling it appears genuine and nice to exchange e-mails with, there is also a '97 450 Chim in Sheffield that sounds nice but it is 11K, is that not strong money for one of those? the Griff is only a grand more (and the Griff pops flames out the exhaust according to the ad)
I have seen what looks like a very nice pre cat 400 and the chap selling it appears genuine and nice to exchange e-mails with, there is also a '97 450 Chim in Sheffield that sounds nice but it is 11K, is that not strong money for one of those? the Griff is only a grand more (and the Griff pops flames out the exhaust according to the ad
)In an ideal world I would but that car is 4 hours away and the past has taught me to drive the cars you intend to buy, a friend had a Chim 400 same time as me and it felt way quicker to me but that may have been a touch of doubt on my part!
Power steering is not an issue, if anything the lack of it is a bonus from a reliability and feel point of view, and my wife can't reach the pedals so that is not an issue either !
What is the Rover box like compared to the T5?? slower to shift? the ratios were a bit weird on my old Chim with the T5, I can only imagine they are worse on the Rover yes?
Thanks for all the replies so far, waht a nice corner of PH this appears to be!
Power steering is not an issue, if anything the lack of it is a bonus from a reliability and feel point of view, and my wife can't reach the pedals so that is not an issue either !
What is the Rover box like compared to the T5?? slower to shift? the ratios were a bit weird on my old Chim with the T5, I can only imagine they are worse on the Rover yes?
Thanks for all the replies so far, waht a nice corner of PH this appears to be!
I'm lucky enough to have owned both, I went from a standard 500 to a very special pre cat, rebuilt, improved and with a somewhat modified 4.6 litre lump!
I loved the 500, but they are different to drive - the pre cat feels a lot more eager through the gears, the noise is awesome and it really brings out the hooligan in me
I also slightly prefer the lt77 gearbox - once its fully warmed up! Slightly nicer feel to the shift, but there's not much in it.
Either way buy on condition (as others have already said) and get around as many as you can. Pre cats are around 20 years old now, its all about the depth of the pockets of previous owners
I loved the 500, but they are different to drive - the pre cat feels a lot more eager through the gears, the noise is awesome and it really brings out the hooligan in me
I also slightly prefer the lt77 gearbox - once its fully warmed up! Slightly nicer feel to the shift, but there's not much in it.
Either way buy on condition (as others have already said) and get around as many as you can. Pre cats are around 20 years old now, its all about the depth of the pockets of previous owners
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No, sorry no idea, I was just curious, that's all. I've been around TVRs since before the Griff was introduced and never seen one with 250bhp on it that's all. As you know there was a lot of confusion about the HC suffix, some thinking it meant high compression when most agree it means high lift cams. And again as time went on all V8s had the high lift cams yet some cars had 430HC and some just 430 etc. It's all very confusing now days because over time owners replaced plenum badges with aftermarket ones saying whatever they want! Obviously adding a BV badge was a quick way of adding several grand to the value of the car on re-sale 
As I said, I certainly noticed the extra power of the 500 but anyway, it has to be said that the Griff 500 also benefited from the usual improvements and developments TVR built in as the series progressed. Better heater control, twin fans, better gearbox etc. OK so they have cats but many have had the pre-cats removed and as a result they sound beautiful and pop and bang just like non catted Griffs. Indeed when I used to go to France with my mates in their Cerberas and Tuscans they'd say their cars sounded like the small arms fire while mine sounded like heavy artillery !!! All good.
I'm a precat person.... but will say that a normal 500 will have it at the top end at about 120mph +
Gearbox..... some of the precats have now had retro fitted T5 boxs.... I had mine done by a garage and the costs were lets just say a lot... where as if doing yourself probably self satisfying, an improvement at not a great finacial outlay in comparison. Benifits of T5...a tighter, stronger box but expensive to get rebuilt, whilst the LT77 box is/can be a bit vague on gear change, they are cheaper to get repaired and also have a longer 2nd gear (I miss this).
Other things are pub bragging rights to saying you've a 5l car, whilst with my 4.3l I just sit there quietly smiling to myself
.... go for a run in the car and everyone behind/infront will sound your car sounds immense and watch the 5l owners disapear into the shaddows
and as for playing with our speed six/ajp friends have a play on some country roads and see who comes out better
Gearbox..... some of the precats have now had retro fitted T5 boxs.... I had mine done by a garage and the costs were lets just say a lot... where as if doing yourself probably self satisfying, an improvement at not a great finacial outlay in comparison. Benifits of T5...a tighter, stronger box but expensive to get rebuilt, whilst the LT77 box is/can be a bit vague on gear change, they are cheaper to get repaired and also have a longer 2nd gear (I miss this).
Other things are pub bragging rights to saying you've a 5l car, whilst with my 4.3l I just sit there quietly smiling to myself
.... go for a run in the car and everyone behind/infront will sound your car sounds immense and watch the 5l owners disapear into the shaddows and as for playing with our speed six/ajp friends have a play on some country roads
and see who comes out betterLongtime (wow, it's been almost 10 years!) Pre cat owner here. I have to agree with my good friend Hoover, the 500's tend to be stronger into the naughty speeds.
I've got a 4.0, with a few extras and never had an issue keeping up with the bigger cars (except 450nick's SC450). I really like the revvy nature of the PreCats compared to the 500's.
Most will have gotten rid of the original Koni shocks by now, and had other upgrades to keep them in form.
The noise. It's just a preCat thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEGGozMiXs
I've got a 4.0, with a few extras and never had an issue keeping up with the bigger cars (except 450nick's SC450). I really like the revvy nature of the PreCats compared to the 500's.
Most will have gotten rid of the original Koni shocks by now, and had other upgrades to keep them in form.
The noise. It's just a preCat thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEGGozMiXs
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