Map or tunning box
Discussion
what's the prons and cons of each?
Always heard that a map is the proper way to increase the bhp and torque and the box just "fools" the ECU (and is remuvable which is good if the car is under warranty)but no one explains ones is better than the other. Is it just preference or there are concrete reasons to go for one rather than the other?
Always heard that a map is the proper way to increase the bhp and torque and the box just "fools" the ECU (and is remuvable which is good if the car is under warranty)but no one explains ones is better than the other. Is it just preference or there are concrete reasons to go for one rather than the other?
90% of tuning boxes are at best pure snake oil, or at worst a very risky and ineffective way of gaining power
there is a lot of s
t you can get, ones that do nothing at all and are purely fake, ones which alter the throttle pedal so all you get is full throttle sooner, these are among the better ones because at least they don't do any harm
there is a lot of s
t you can get, ones that do nothing at all and are purely fake, ones which alter the throttle pedal so all you get is full throttle sooner, these are among the better ones because at least they don't do any harm Tuning boxes are in effect a remap that has been carried out on one specific car and then all of those tweaks are made 'standard' they don't take into account the engine specific to your car I.e the test car may have had its boost turned up to 19psi which was fine on that car but then on your car due to different stresses and tolerances 19psi may not be either be the best or safest boost pressure for your car to run. (This is just an example of one parameter that could have been changed)
Tuning boxes send false data about rail pressure to the ECU, to make it appear lower, so the engine will either increase injection duration or fuel pressure to compensate.
More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
TheEnd said:
Tuning boxes send false data about rail pressure to the ECU, to make it appear lower, so the engine will either increase injection duration or fuel pressure to compensate.
More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
All very true. However the same can also be said about a lot of remaps.More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
TheEnd said:
Tuning boxes send false data about rail pressure to the ECU, to make it appear lower, so the engine will either increase injection duration or fuel pressure to compensate.
More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
Funny you should mention the smoke comment. My mondeo was really smoky before I fitted the box, seems a lot less smoky now.More fuel=more power on most diesels, and often more smoke too.
Boost pressure is very rarely altered.
Your mpg calculations are also thrown off wildly as the ECU believes "x" amount of fuel is being injected, not "x+tuning box" so they give false positive economy readings.
Most tuning box manufacturers will be full of crap about custom maps inside, but they just intercept the rail pressure signal only, and give a false lower signal, and no reference to RPMS, road speed, engine load etc.
Fish981 said:
All very true. However the same can also be said about a lot of remaps.
Yea, you can do the same thing inside an ECU, just quickly change the injector duration and nothing else, as it'l give more power, inject more diesel than it realises, and give better economy on the MPG gauge.Bohally said:
Funny you should mention the smoke comment. My mondeo was really smoky before I fitted the box, seems a lot less smoky now.
Unusual, that doesn't fit with how they should work, but I guess with all the different parts working together, one change can start having different knock on effects to other systems.With remaps you'd be better off getting a custom map over a generic map. Removes the guesswork from the ECU and matches the map to your components and your engine, instead of a demo vehicles engine and components. A generic map is designed for catering to the masses generally on new components and engines, whilst the custom maps cater specifically to your engine/components in their state/age.
Despite manufacturing standards, no engines are identical and the same is true for tuning components too.
So really i'm suggesting neither a generic map or a tuning box, but to get custom mapped by someone who knows their stuff.
Despite manufacturing standards, no engines are identical and the same is true for tuning components too.
So really i'm suggesting neither a generic map or a tuning box, but to get custom mapped by someone who knows their stuff.
Edited by HedgehogFromHell on Sunday 30th December 18:15
Tuning boxes are generally poverty spec remaps that have been carried out on a test car and then just assumed that all cars will be the same which as we all know, they are never the same. Additionally you will often find that a tuning box just chucks all the torque at you from low RPM where as a custom remap will generally smooth the torque curve out making it much nicer to drive.
You generally also find that a tuning box will not give as much power as a decent remap, normally due to point one the tuning box companies do not give you the most power possible incase your car can't handle it, they have a tolerance of their own.
In summary if you are going to do it, do it properly with a custom remap. If being able to remove it is important to you then there are a number of companies that will do a custom remap for your vehicle and then load it onto a box or other means for removing it yourselves. It my cost you a bit more but it is worth it imo.
Additionally i'm sure many will be on to tell you soon that remapping cars drastically shortens the cars life etc as that is the general way these threads normally go once the ill informed join in and start throwing their opinions around.
A decent remap from a reputable remapping company will shorten nothing, if you decide to hammer it everywhere then of course you can expect to chew through tyres, brakes etc and if you are extremely aggressive with your take offs then the clutch will probably take a beating too, this is all stuff that would happen if you hammered a non-remapped car though so its nothing to be worried about at all.
You generally also find that a tuning box will not give as much power as a decent remap, normally due to point one the tuning box companies do not give you the most power possible incase your car can't handle it, they have a tolerance of their own.
In summary if you are going to do it, do it properly with a custom remap. If being able to remove it is important to you then there are a number of companies that will do a custom remap for your vehicle and then load it onto a box or other means for removing it yourselves. It my cost you a bit more but it is worth it imo.
Additionally i'm sure many will be on to tell you soon that remapping cars drastically shortens the cars life etc as that is the general way these threads normally go once the ill informed join in and start throwing their opinions around.
A decent remap from a reputable remapping company will shorten nothing, if you decide to hammer it everywhere then of course you can expect to chew through tyres, brakes etc and if you are extremely aggressive with your take offs then the clutch will probably take a beating too, this is all stuff that would happen if you hammered a non-remapped car though so its nothing to be worried about at all.
Ozzie Osmond said:
If your car is by any chance an automatic I'd avoid both like the plague. Auto boxes are very sensitive to excess torque and likely to detonate expensively if you make a habit of jumping on the throttle.
What?Which car are you talking about? Auto boxes can be just as highly torque rated, if not higher than the manual equivalent.
TheEnd said:
Unusual, that doesn't fit with how they should work, but I guess with all the different parts working together, one change can start having different knock on effects to other systems.
This is the one I used.http://www.tdi-tuning.co.uk/car_and_van_diesel_tun...130_ps96_kw_/crtd_diesel_tuning_box_ford_mondeo_20_tdci_128_bhp_130_ps_96_kw_P49.html
Albeit, I got it off a mate who had run it on his car for 60k miles over 3 years with no problems! Worth it for the £50 I paid IMO.
Mastodon2 said:
I think you are probably very much the exception and no the rule.
I don't like the sound of this.... Time to punt it through the auction?!It wasn't overly smokey before, just the usual cloud of reek when I floored it during an overtake. After I fitted the box it doesn't seem to be as smokey though! I've done about 10k or so with the box fitted since July(ish) and it seems to be alright! Car is sitting on 102k now though.
Spoof said:
What?
Which car are you talking about? Auto boxes can be just as highly torque rated, if not higher than the manual equivalent.
What?Which car are you talking about? Auto boxes can be just as highly torque rated, if not higher than the manual equivalent.
In a modern car the auto box is protected from idiot drivers by a cunnning computerised torque management system. It can be specified with wafer-thin tolerances.
A manual box is always at the mercy of an idiot driver who dumps the clutch.
Hence lots more leeway in a manual than an auto.
Bohally said:
I don't like the sound of this.... Time to punt it through the auction?!It wasn't overly smokey before, just the usual cloud of reek when I floored it during an overtake. After I fitted the box it doesn't seem to be as smokey though! I've done about 10k or so with the box fitted since July(ish) and it seems to be alright! Car is sitting on 102k now though.
Mastodon2 said:
I wouldn't worry about the smoke or lack of, more the potential damage your car might be suffering from the box in general. Diesels are mapped to avoid smoking as standard, when you up the fueling, up the boost etc to get more power, you are going to be getting more partially burnt fuel coming through, so you get those massive clouds of soot. You can spot a remapped / tuning box'd diesel from a mile off because instead of the usual smoke cloud, you get a continual plume of thick black smog shooting out of the exhaust every time the car is on boost.
Hmm... I wonder if mine is running okay then? Never a huge plume of smoke. For what I paid for the car if the worst happens ill just by another. It's been fairly cheap motoring!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff