Which 'old skool' hot hatch?
Discussion
Morning all,
Just sitting here musing over my next car choices. Recently, I feel very drawn to a small hot hatch. Whatever it is, must be the complete opposite of my Audi A8.
For the sake of understanding the contrast, the A8 is huge, has stacks of torque, rides very softly, is very quiet, is full of toys and is very comfortable. It is the ideal commuter and family car. But part of me yearns for something small and revvy. Preferably with a straight through exhaust for a real sonic experience!
The cars I am mulling over, as I so often do, are as follows:
Peugeot 106/306 Rallye
Ford Fiesta RS Turbo
Honda Civic EK4
My budget will be capped around £4000, though realistically, I expect to spend somewhat less than this and I'd only go that far if I sold my Audi.
I like the look of the Peugeot's because of the attraction of the Rallye design ethic. It also seems to be easier to find a decent Rallye than it is a GTi/GTi-6 these days too. I know they are both cracking cars. I wonder though, would the 106 Rallye be suitable for overtaking? The S1 8v with circa 63bhp must be hard work to slot past the slow movers, no? The 306, I imagine, has no such issues.
The Ford Fiesta RS Turbo is one of those cars I've always loved. Though my current desire is a for a revvy, noisy hot hatch I would happily settle for a good RS Turbo. The Civic interests me, though good examples seem few and far between. The obvious option of an EP3 is swept away by my best mate owning one, I want something a little different so we can enjoy each other's cars! Similarly, DC2 Integras seem harder than ever to find in good shape. Same with 205/309GTi's and R5 Turbos...
Are there any other obvious cars I should look at? As I mention, my preference is for something with as small a footprint as possible. Something that likes to rev, and ideally, needs loads of revs. Torque does not concern me, indeed, I would be quite excited by the prospect of a car that was 'hard work' and in need of loads of gear shifting and pedal work to keep on the boil.
Just sitting here musing over my next car choices. Recently, I feel very drawn to a small hot hatch. Whatever it is, must be the complete opposite of my Audi A8.
For the sake of understanding the contrast, the A8 is huge, has stacks of torque, rides very softly, is very quiet, is full of toys and is very comfortable. It is the ideal commuter and family car. But part of me yearns for something small and revvy. Preferably with a straight through exhaust for a real sonic experience!
The cars I am mulling over, as I so often do, are as follows:
Peugeot 106/306 Rallye
Ford Fiesta RS Turbo
Honda Civic EK4
My budget will be capped around £4000, though realistically, I expect to spend somewhat less than this and I'd only go that far if I sold my Audi.
I like the look of the Peugeot's because of the attraction of the Rallye design ethic. It also seems to be easier to find a decent Rallye than it is a GTi/GTi-6 these days too. I know they are both cracking cars. I wonder though, would the 106 Rallye be suitable for overtaking? The S1 8v with circa 63bhp must be hard work to slot past the slow movers, no? The 306, I imagine, has no such issues.
The Ford Fiesta RS Turbo is one of those cars I've always loved. Though my current desire is a for a revvy, noisy hot hatch I would happily settle for a good RS Turbo. The Civic interests me, though good examples seem few and far between. The obvious option of an EP3 is swept away by my best mate owning one, I want something a little different so we can enjoy each other's cars! Similarly, DC2 Integras seem harder than ever to find in good shape. Same with 205/309GTi's and R5 Turbos...
Are there any other obvious cars I should look at? As I mention, my preference is for something with as small a footprint as possible. Something that likes to rev, and ideally, needs loads of revs. Torque does not concern me, indeed, I would be quite excited by the prospect of a car that was 'hard work' and in need of loads of gear shifting and pedal work to keep on the boil.
After_Shock said:
Seriously?
Moving on from that and your other requirements something with a VTEC seems to fit the bill.
Yes. Part of it is a feeling like motorists are becoming cowed to the nanny state. As the world moves towards endless, insufferable diesel clatter, I feel a want for some noise. The A8 makes a lovely V8 rumble when pulling away and has a lovely 'flutter' to it at high revs but I want something considerably noisier. Moving on from that and your other requirements something with a VTEC seems to fit the bill.
Perhaps not a full straight through system, as I might not hear my Radio 4 over it then, but definitely something like a catback system for some added noise. I have the benefit of living in the country, near many lovely twisty little B roads with few people to p
s off with car noise. I certainly won't be going to sit in a McDonalds car park in it. Personally I find those slow, dull, no-where near 'hot' hatches very boring indeed.
Are you only sold on hatch?
What about Mk2 Escort RS2000, or Mk1 Mexico
Mk1 Golf or Renult 5 GT Turbo are the original hot hatches and the only ones that don't have a chav label stuck to them.
Sorry to be so negative I have just seen all that stuff done sooooo many times before by Barry teenager and you get soooo sick of them. Oh Vauxhall Nova and Corsa are in that group too.
Sorry.
Are you only sold on hatch?
What about Mk2 Escort RS2000, or Mk1 Mexico
Mk1 Golf or Renult 5 GT Turbo are the original hot hatches and the only ones that don't have a chav label stuck to them.
Sorry to be so negative I have just seen all that stuff done sooooo many times before by Barry teenager and you get soooo sick of them. Oh Vauxhall Nova and Corsa are in that group too.
Sorry.
stormy22 said:
Sorry to be so negative I have just seen all that stuff done sooooo many times before by Barry teenager and you get soooo sick of them. Oh Vauxhall Nova and Corsa are in that group too.
Sorry.
I think a lot of the hot hatches have come back around from the chav phase. Obviously the likes of Corsas were always sSorry.
t and have no redeeming features but the hot Peugeots, Hondas etc etc are now enjoying a bit of a renaissance as they are once again appreciated for their drive rather than being merely the preserve of knuckle draggers. Of course, plenty are still in the hands of barry boy idiots, but I'm not after that sort of thing, I just want a revvy little hot hatch. So whether or not these things have been done 'soooo' many times before by teenagers matters little to me. I want to driving them as God intended, not sitting around shopping centre car parks cranking out dubstep. As for the Escort RS2000 and Mexico, I doubt I'll be seeing any of those for less than £4000 any time soon!
I should also add that I like a little bit of lift off oversteer in a hot hatch. I expect the Peugeots will deliver this most readily in a typically Gallic fashion? I love the tactile response of easing the throttle a tad and letting the back end run a little wide.
EDIT: Also to add, when I say an 'old skool' hot hatch, I'm not necessarily talking about first generation hot hatch stuff like the Lotus Sunbeam etc etc. More late 80's and 90's stuff from the age before Brussels made every car look like a bubble and weight two tonnes. Lightweight, mechanically simple and fun to drive.
Hi there
I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v, which is in contrast to my XJR.
It is great, lightweight, really chuckable, and loves to rev. I used to have a Mk2 TSR Silverstone 2.1, which was immense.
Thread on my 16v here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My friend and I are just finishing a rebuild of the Golf with a different engine amongst other things.
Looking at your profile I see you are in Scotland too. I spend my time between Edinburgh and Dundee, so you are welcome to have a shot when it is finished.
Or, you could get a Volvo 850 T5, which is like a big old school hot hatch
I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v, which is in contrast to my XJR.
It is great, lightweight, really chuckable, and loves to rev. I used to have a Mk2 TSR Silverstone 2.1, which was immense.
Thread on my 16v here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My friend and I are just finishing a rebuild of the Golf with a different engine amongst other things.
Looking at your profile I see you are in Scotland too. I spend my time between Edinburgh and Dundee, so you are welcome to have a shot when it is finished.
Or, you could get a Volvo 850 T5, which is like a big old school hot hatch
Edited by Ecurie Ecosse on Monday 31st December 06:44
Of the list,I'd go with the 106 Rallye to sit next to the big Audi for a bu ch of reasons.
Chiefly, the Audi, like my E38, is a superb place to be but not great on a maximum attack country lane hoon or for the 3 mile trip to Sainsburys. The 106 is brilliant at both of those things.
Power wise, the mk1 106 kicks out 103bhp at 7000rpm which is nutty and it'll overtake slow stuff fine, perhaps with out the style the big Audi manages but still rather well.
Should also be cheap to run, insure and shouldn't devalue either. Buy a standard one, fit a pugsport exhaust and leave it at that
Chiefly, the Audi, like my E38, is a superb place to be but not great on a maximum attack country lane hoon or for the 3 mile trip to Sainsburys. The 106 is brilliant at both of those things.
Power wise, the mk1 106 kicks out 103bhp at 7000rpm which is nutty and it'll overtake slow stuff fine, perhaps with out the style the big Audi manages but still rather well.
Should also be cheap to run, insure and shouldn't devalue either. Buy a standard one, fit a pugsport exhaust and leave it at that
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Hi there
I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v, which is in contrast to my XJR.
It is great, lightweight, really chuckable, and loves to rev. I used to have a Mk2 TSR Silverstone 2.1, which was immense.
Thread on my 16v here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My friend and I are just finishing a rebuild of the Golf with a different engine amongst other things.
Looking at your profile I see you are in Scotland too. I spend my time between Edinburgh and Dundee, so you are welcome to have a shot when it is finished.
Or, you could get a Volvo 850 T5, which is like a big old school hot hatch
Loving your idea of Volvo T5!!! Though, must say, they do saloon or estate...no hatch!! I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v, which is in contrast to my XJR.
It is great, lightweight, really chuckable, and loves to rev. I used to have a Mk2 TSR Silverstone 2.1, which was immense.
Thread on my 16v here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My friend and I are just finishing a rebuild of the Golf with a different engine amongst other things.
Looking at your profile I see you are in Scotland too. I spend my time between Edinburgh and Dundee, so you are welcome to have a shot when it is finished.
Or, you could get a Volvo 850 T5, which is like a big old school hot hatch
Edited by Ecurie Ecosse on Monday 31st December 06:44
CampDavid said:
Power wise, the mk1 106 kicks out 103bhp at 7000rpm which is nutty and it'll overtake slow stuff fine, perhaps with out the style the big Audi manages but still rather well.
What does the 106 Rallye redline at? I am guessing the fuel cut or redline comes shortly after that figure? Ecurie Ecosse, the Volvo 850 T5 is a neat suggestion but that is more of an alternative to my Audi! Big, bold and powerful. Awesome cars in their own right and ones I have lusted after before but definitely too big and unwieldy for the sort of thing I'm looking for. They are awesome A road machines though.
It's not that the Audi is a bad B road blaster either. It's aluminium body spares it some weight, it handles well for it's size, the tiptronic gearbox does what it's job well enough and 4.2 litres of V8 power is amply delivered out of corners via the Quattro AWD system. It will quite happily blow down a B road and is usually far faster and more capable than most sight lines allow for. But it feels mechanically detached and far too competent to be outrageous fun. The ideal effortless day to day car, but not the ideal toy.
No doubt the wife will go nuts if I sell the Audi and put something cramped and noisy on the drive. Though I care little for her complaints.
Baryonyx said:
It's not that the Audi is a bad B road blaster either. It's aluminium body spares it some weight, it handles well for it's size, the tiptronic gearbox does what it's job well enough and 4.2 litres of V8 power is amply delivered out of corners via the Quattro AWD system. It will quite happily blow down a B road and is usually far faster and more capable than most sight lines allow for. But it feels mechanically detached and far too competent to be outrageous fun. The ideal effortless day to day car, but not the ideal toy.
Sounds like a magazine article. You should work for autocarBaryonyx said:
What does the 106 Rallye redline at? I am guessing the fuel cut or redline comes shortly after that figure?
Ecurie Ecosse, the Volvo 850 T5 is a neat suggestion but that is more of an alternative to my Audi! Big, bold and powerful. Awesome cars in their own right and ones I have lusted after before but definitely too big and unwieldy for the sort of thing I'm looking for. They are awesome A road machines though.
It's not that the Audi is a bad B road blaster either. It's aluminium body spares it some weight, it handles well for it's size, the tiptronic gearbox does what it's job well enough and 4.2 litres of V8 power is amply delivered out of corners via the Quattro AWD system. It will quite happily blow down a B road and is usually far faster and more capable than most sight lines allow for. But it feels mechanically detached and far too competent to be outrageous fun. The ideal effortless day to day car, but not the ideal toy.
No doubt the wife will go nuts if I sell the Audi and put something cramped and noisy on the drive. Though I care little for her complaints.
The Rallye redlines at about 7200 IIRC, maybe a touch higher. I did my first ever track day in one with A048s on and it was sublime. No PAS and tonns of feedback, I actually bought a Saxo VTS on the back of it but the handling feel was a complete let down after the 106. I'd have one alongside the big German.Ecurie Ecosse, the Volvo 850 T5 is a neat suggestion but that is more of an alternative to my Audi! Big, bold and powerful. Awesome cars in their own right and ones I have lusted after before but definitely too big and unwieldy for the sort of thing I'm looking for. They are awesome A road machines though.
It's not that the Audi is a bad B road blaster either. It's aluminium body spares it some weight, it handles well for it's size, the tiptronic gearbox does what it's job well enough and 4.2 litres of V8 power is amply delivered out of corners via the Quattro AWD system. It will quite happily blow down a B road and is usually far faster and more capable than most sight lines allow for. But it feels mechanically detached and far too competent to be outrageous fun. The ideal effortless day to day car, but not the ideal toy.
No doubt the wife will go nuts if I sell the Audi and put something cramped and noisy on the drive. Though I care little for her complaints.
I know what you mean about B roading, my E38 has the Alpine handling suspension on it and all the sport caper so it's pretty good, it feels a lot like a dirty great 3 series and, suprisingly, much more competent than a 1er. Body control is great too. You can't really drive something like that at 10/10ths though, it just doesn't really work
gary3170 said:
stormy22 said:
Personally I find those slow, dull, no-where near 'hot' hatches very boring indeed.
Are you only sold on hatch?
What about Mk2 Escort RS2000, or Mk1 Mexico
for 4 grand!!!!!!!!!Are you only sold on hatch?
What about Mk2 Escort RS2000, or Mk1 Mexico
It is the 16V 106 Rallye that has 103bhp is it not, and the 8V that has a rather wheezy 63bhp? Even in a lightweight car like the Rallye, 63bhp never going to get you anywhere in a hurry.
The EK4 / EJ9 Civics are a good shout, but not easy to find a good one. Great engines on the VTi / SiR range.
I agree with dropping the RS Turbo from the running, naturally aspirated is the way to go in this segment. Not worth the hassle of dying turbos, boost leaks etc, something simple like a Rallye you just get in, turn the key and off you go, any problems are likely relatively easy to diagnose and fix. And they sound better too.
The EK4 / EJ9 Civics are a good shout, but not easy to find a good one. Great engines on the VTi / SiR range.
I agree with dropping the RS Turbo from the running, naturally aspirated is the way to go in this segment. Not worth the hassle of dying turbos, boost leaks etc, something simple like a Rallye you just get in, turn the key and off you go, any problems are likely relatively easy to diagnose and fix. And they sound better too.
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