Below Absolute Zero

Below Absolute Zero

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annodomini2

Original Poster:

6,862 posts

252 months

Friday 4th January 2013
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Simpo Two

85,490 posts

266 months

Saturday 5th January 2013
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PW said:
In this particular instance putting energy in decreases entropy, therefore creating a negative temperature value.
So the more you try to warm it up the colder it gets...?

Simpo Two

85,490 posts

266 months

Saturday 5th January 2013
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I see. So temperature is a loop and once it goes up to very hot and then infinitely hot it suddenly goes to absolute zero like a big circle.

Time to get my coat!

hornet

6,333 posts

251 months

Monday 7th January 2013
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So have they broken the concept of absolute zero, or just moved the point of absolute zero to a lower value?

thegherkin

4 posts

136 months

Monday 7th January 2013
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hornet said:
So have they broken the concept of absolute zero, or just moved the point of absolute zero to a lower value?
No, neither. The definition of temperature being used here isn't the intuitive one you're familiar with. In statistical mechanics we define temperature as T=(dS/dE)^-1 which is basically 1/T. Now it should be easy to see that as T→0, 1/T approaches +∞ and that negative temperatures are in fact hotter than any positive temperature.

The wired.co.uk article is tosh. It's wrong on so many levels. In one instance it says, "At absolute zero particles were thought to have zero energy." This was never the case; at least not since the 30s. Allow me to explain. According to old quantum theory, the energy levels in a harmonic oscillator were given by:

E=nhv

At the lowest energy level, by definition, n=0, which means the system would have zero energy and be in a state of complete rest. However, wave mechanics and the uncertainty principle tells us that a state of such completely defined position and momentum is not possible, and that the energy levels of an oscillator are in fact given by:

E=(n + ½)hv

so that even when n=0 in the ground state, there is still a residual zero-point energy.

I couldn't be bothered reading the rest.

hornet

6,333 posts

251 months

Thursday 10th January 2013
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I think I understood at least some of that, thanks smile

RB Will

9,666 posts

241 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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have a listen to this weeks skeptics guide to the universe podcast. they explain it quite well on there.