Seat ibiza injector fault
Seat ibiza injector fault
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Discussion

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Friday 4th January 2013
quotequote all
Hi, got a problem where one of my injectors is permanently on, full.

I understand injectors are negatively switched.

However where would be best to start looking? are there relays that can be changed (if faulty), or is injection direct powered and controlled by the ecu?

I'm going to buy a mutlimeter and check for shorts tommorow, (will unplug the relevant bits of loom to isolate them from each other). But if its likely to be a simple relay, then obviously that will be my first port of call.

Is there anywhere i can get a wiring diagram for my car? 1999, 1.4 8v?

Any pointers will be very much appreciated.

Steve_D

13,802 posts

288 months

Friday 4th January 2013
quotequote all
Are you saying it is electrically on or jammed open?

In operation each injector has power and is earthed by the ECU. In some cases the injectors are earthed in banks rather than individually.

With the ignition on there should be 12v on one pin of each injector plug.
With ignition on the other pin of each should not have continuity to earth. If there is then unplug the ECU and test again. If it still has continuity then you have a short in the loom. If not then I suspect a short circuit in the ECU.

Steve

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Saturday 5th January 2013
quotequote all
It is electrically on, for example, you prime the fuel pump and petrol sprays out of injector 1. Will do some further investigations today, thanks.

stevieturbo

18,079 posts

277 months

Saturday 5th January 2013
quotequote all
orangesrule said:
It is electrically on, for example, you prime the fuel pump and petrol sprays out of injector 1. Will do some further investigations today, thanks.
That isnt quite clear.

If you prime the pump only, and provide no electrical power to the injector, then it is mechanically stuck open.

So are you just turning on the ignition, hearing the pump prime and assuming it is electrically held open, or actually tested.

I guess most simple way, unplug the injector and key on to prime the pump and watch what happens.

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Saturday 5th January 2013
quotequote all
Well i was convinced the injector was dead, so bought a used one...and had the same issue. I then swapped them about, and petrol still sprays from injector number 1 and no others.

Steve_D

13,802 posts

288 months

Sunday 6th January 2013
quotequote all
orangesrule said:
Well i was convinced the injector was dead, so bought a used one...and had the same issue. I then swapped them about, and petrol still sprays from injector number 1 and no others.
Then you are back to tracing the short circuit.
Do you have info on what pin numbers do what on the ECU, known as the 'pinout'?

If you do then cut the injector 1 wire a couple of inches from the ECU and run a new wire from the injector to the ECU.
If this works you can either strip the loom and find the short or just tidy your bodge and live with it. The only downside is that whatever caused the short is likely affecting other wires as well and more faults will develop in time.

Steve

Enginostics

9 posts

165 months

Sunday 6th January 2013
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Hi, I would recommend using VCDS, once known as VAG-COM, plug it into the car and take a passenger out with you and data log the car and see whats it doing. If you believe it's an injector related fault then monitor the correct measuring block for injector quantity. If the vehicle is a petrol, remove injectors and test them on the ASNU machine. The ASNU machine we have will test injector inductance; flow rate at different pressures and RPM, spray pattern test at different pressures and RPM and if needed it has an ultra sonic bath to clean the nozzles.

Edited by Enginostics on Sunday 6th January 20:01

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Sunday 6th January 2013
quotequote all
I have looked for the ecu pinout, but to no avail.

Had a gander at the ecu, which was soaking. so have unplugged it, removed from the car and removed the breather valve. Its now in the house drying out (although didn't really look wet inside through the breather).

This evening i traced through the ground cable from the injector to the ecu plug, i can't seem to find an earth fault with the plugs unplugged....which is pointing me towards the ecu.

I'll give it till tuesday to dry out, plug it back in and see how it goes.

Steve_D

13,802 posts

288 months

Monday 7th January 2013
quotequote all
You say you have traced the wire back to the ECU. Did this include opening up the loom or just finding the same colour wire at each end? If you opened the loom and followed the wire then it is likely you have now removed the short circuit.

Steve

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Monday 7th January 2013
quotequote all
Didnt open the loom, took the backshell off the back of the plug, just looked for the same wire either end, and tested for continuity, end to end (got continuity). Then Tested from the end to ground (got no continuity).

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Tuesday 8th January 2013
quotequote all
After letting the ecu dry for a couple days, i plugged it back in this morning; and the bleddy thing, fired on all cylinders straight away.

Quickly made a cover to stop water dripping in off the wiper mechanism right onto the ECU. Water now, drips onto the box and flows into the gutting.



Edited by orangesrule on Tuesday 8th January 14:09

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

250 months

Tuesday 8th January 2013
quotequote all
Interesting. Bosch ECUs are normally very well sealed against water ingress. Are all the seals intact?

orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Wednesday 9th January 2013
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Interesting. Bosch ECUs are normally very well sealed against water ingress. Are all the seals intact?
You sir are correct, driving to work yesturday and the fault reappeared. I ripped the ecu out before i started work, and split the casing, which was very well sealed, and was bone dry inside, with no signs of water ingress.

Soooo back on it this morning, wiggling the loom near the ecu plug, made the car go from 3 to 4 cylinders on idle. I removed 2 inches of wrapping on the loom to find a twin core screened cable, the outer insulation was removed for the last inch or so, with the screen slightly exposed. So i insulated the screen and then re wrapped this part of the loom.

So far i can't make it go down onto 3 cylinders, so basically it looks like water ingress into the loom lowered the insulation resistance and an earth path was tracking through the screen. (fingers crossed this was it, but i'm not holding my breath now)


Edited by orangesrule on Wednesday 9th January 10:48

Steve_D

13,802 posts

288 months

Wednesday 9th January 2013
quotequote all
orangesrule said:
.......(fingers crossed this was it, but i'm not holding my breath now)
Nor would I.
That screen is unlikely to be the problem as in order for it to work it should be earthed at one end or the other (but not both).

I think you still have the problem in the loom (which is better than in the ECU) you have just disturbed it for the time being.

Steve

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

250 months

Wednesday 9th January 2013
quotequote all
/\ that or maybe a dry joint on the injector driver in question.

It's not common, but I've seen it a few times over the years on Bosch Motronic ECUs used on BMW M50 and VR6 engines.

Disturbing the ECU sometimes gives a temporary cure.



orangesrule

Original Poster:

1,942 posts

178 months

Friday 11th January 2013
quotequote all
Was working fine, till driving home from work at midnight last night, then the fault reoccurred.

Had another look around the ecu and loom plug, and it all looked good. traced the loom back another 6 inches, and under a bit of opaque perspex which covered the window wiper motor, you could clearly see the issue. The loom had been ran hard up against the corner of the motor casing. Which over time has worn into the loom causing this fault. Obviously messing with the ecu and plug disturbed it enough, to work temporarily. But now very confident this was the source of my problems.


Steve_D

13,802 posts

288 months

Friday 11th January 2013
quotequote all
Nice one.
Sorted

Steve

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

250 months

Friday 11th January 2013
quotequote all
SEAT ran the ECU harness that close to a metal edge? Blimey!

Good spot though!