EP3's

[Temple]

What's everyone's thoughts on the EP3 type r's? The decent ones seem to be holding their prices. Or is there something else in the price range I should be looking at.

Edited by Temple on Wednesday 9th January 18:06

[lauda]

From personal experience, mine was bulletproof in the 3.5 years and 60,000 miles I used it for and it had already done 50,000 miles when I bought it. The most important thing is to check that it has full service history and check the oil level to see whether the owner has kept this topped up as they can drink a bit of oil.

When I sold mine, it was still on the original clutch and exhaust and other than brakes, tyres and routine servicing, nothing else had ever needed attention. Running cost are what you would expect for a hot hatch - I averaged about 30 mpg but regularly saw 40 mpg on a long motorway run at 70-80mph.

The engine and gearbox are both exceptional (I never felt that it lacked torque for a 2.0l and for part of the time I owned it I was also running a 350Z so I'm not unfamiliar with torquier cars) and the top end performance and noise marked it out as a bit more special than competitors for me. The steering feel always came in for criticism and whilst I would agree it wasn't great, it never significantly affected my confidence when pushing on and generally the chassis handles the power quite well, although it's not quite so good at getting power down out of corners in the wet (an LSD, like on the ITR would have transformed in this respect IMO).

Overall, I loved my time with it and I've toyed with the idea of getting another one more than once since selling it.

[jbsportstech]

Depends but I never liked the 3 dr civic body shape and got a type s instead it depends on you mental age and whether you carry passengers.

Get a 2004 onwards type-s 2.0 vsa and you get alot more car for your money in my opinion. You get cruise, climate control, half leather, honda's famed vehicle stability assistance, front fogs. Lots of type r's dont have a/c front fogs, trip computer, projection head lamps.

You get a beautifully balanced 5 speed box instead of the 6 and 160bhp not the 196bhp but I am in the process of converting my engine to type r. If you get the optional 17 inch penta wheels they look good and run wider tyres than the type r 215 rather 205. Best of all they are dead cheap and only cost £215 a year to tax. Mine will do 38-41mpg on a run if driven gently but even with a mix I get 28-34mpg. The 2.0 i-vtec engine really is a super 4 cylinder it gives power and economy and is ni on bulit proof. You could do 15k and the oil still looks almost new.

[lauda]

jbsportstech said:

Depends but I never liked the 3 dr civic body shape and got a type s instead it depends on you mental age and whether you carry passengers.

Get a 2004 onwards type-s 2.0 vsa and you get alot more car for your money in my opinion. You get cruise, climate control, half leather, honda's famed vehicle stability assistance, front fogs. Lots of type r's dont have a/c front fogs, trip computer, projection head lamps.

You get a beautifully balanced 5 speed box instead of the 6 and 160bhp not the 196bhp but I am in the process of converting my engine to type r. If you get the optional 17 inch penta wheels they look good and run wider tyres than the type r 215 rather 205. Best of all they are dead cheap and only cost £215 a year to tax. Mine will do 38-41mpg on a run if driven gently but even with a mix I get 28-34mpg. The 2.0 i-vtec engine really is a super 4 cylinder it gives power and economy and is ni on bulit proof. You could do 15k and the oil still looks almost new.

My girlfriend at the time that I had my Type-R had a Type-S and whilst it was a nice car, it really wasn't in the same league (which is not unexpected since they're not really playing the same game). If you want a hot hatch though, I would struggle to apply that mantle to a Type-S.

If anything, I thought it felt slower than the stats suggested it should.

[jbsportstech]

I went in it from a focus st and its not in the same league but it still catch alot of other cars napping. Its very usable and it has much more predicable handling with the 17s on, on 16s i didnt like it.

Yeh the type r gets to 60 2 seconds faster.

I think the ep3 is much better than the fn2 but ep3 r's are so cheap that alot of clowns are buying them and writing them off so insurance has gone through the roof.

[Coldfuse]

Adding the Type R engine, but none of the chassis/suspension/braking additions? if so, pointless.

For all its worth might aswell just buy the Type R.

[jbsportstech]

Coldfuse said:

Adding the Type R engine, but none of the chassis/suspension/braking additions? if so, pointless.

For all its worth might aswell just buy the Type R.

You can't get climate sat nav and 5 doors on type r ep3.

The brakes are very good and I was told on type r forum the same the type s has the firmer sportier suspension type r its only 30 ish bhp more.

I like the idea you see type r and you know what to expect but the 5 door is much more of a sleeper.

Edited by jbsportstech on Wednesday 9th January 19:18

[Baryonyx]

jbsportstech said:

You can't get climate sat nav and 5 doors on type r ep3.

That's sort of the point! I am agreed that the plan to drop a Type R engine into the Type S shell is a daft idea.

[Mr2Mike]

Each to their own but I think the 5 door EP is lardy looking and supremely dull compared to the 5 door, though obviously more practical if you have a young (or maybe old) family to cart around. I would have considered a 3 door Type S though, if they had made one.

I thought all the facelift EP3s had projector style lights?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 9th January 19:34

[jbsportstech]

Mr2Mike said:

Each to their own but I think the 5 door EP is lardy looking and supremely dull compared to the 5 door, though obviously more practical if you have a young (or maybe old) family to cart around. I would have considered a 3 door Type S though, if they had made one.

I thought all the facelift EP3s had projector style lights?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 9th January 19:34

You make no sense, 5 door looks dull compared to the 5 door. I prefer the type s with penta wheels don't like the standard type r wheels and its bread van looks, each to their own.

The ep3 type s was strictly 2.0 5 door but fn2 you can get 1.8 vtec 2.2 oil burner etc 3/5 door.


know they switched to projector around late 2003- 2004 on type rs when they face lifted the civic they also moved to lexus style rear lights. See 2002 type r no front fogs or projector head lamps>

Edited by jbsportstech on Wednesday 9th January 19:48

[750turbo]

jbsportstech said:

Coldfuse said:

Adding the Type R engine, but none of the chassis/suspension/braking additions? if so, pointless.

For all its worth might aswell just buy the Type R.

You can't get climate sat nav and 5 doors on type r ep3.

The brakes are very good and I was told on type r forum the same the type s has the firmer sportier suspension type r its only 30 ish bhp more.

I like the idea you see type r and you know what to expect but the 5 door is much more of a sleeper.

Edited by jbsportstech on Wednesday 9th January 19:18

47BHP of a difference.

IMO you are fekkin nuts doing your "Conversion"

[zabba]

Great cars, more fun to take on a B road blast than the normal turbo brigade of hot hatches, but not as good on the motorway or when you just want to take it easy.

[Mastodon2]

jbsportstech said:

Depends but I never liked the 3 dr civic body shape and got a type s instead it depends on you mental age and whether you carry passengers.

Get a 2004 onwards type-s 2.0 vsa and you get alot more car for your money in my opinion. You get cruise, climate control, half leather, honda's famed vehicle stability assistance, front fogs. Lots of type r's dont have a/c front fogs, trip computer, projection head lamps.

You get a beautifully balanced 5 speed box instead of the 6 and 160bhp not the 196bhp but I am in the process of converting my engine to type r. If you get the optional 17 inch penta wheels they look good and run wider tyres than the type r 215 rather 205. Best of all they are dead cheap and only cost £215 a year to tax. Mine will do 38-41mpg on a run if driven gently but even with a mix I get 28-34mpg. The 2.0 i-vtec engine really is a super 4 cylinder it gives power and economy and is ni on bulit proof. You could do 15k and the oil still looks almost new.

Why would you want a fully loaded 5 door Type R? You've missed the point.

As with so many people who go down this misguided route, much like sticking some coilovers and a new exhaust on a 330ci doesn't make an M3, the Type R is not just a Type S with an engine thrown in. Cars like this are more than a sum of their parts, you can't replicate the magic by throwing money at the cooking models.

If you do go the route of upgrading the suspension, changing the engine (but not the gearbox, who'd want the close ratio 6 speed when you've got a "beautifully balanced" 5 speed lol) the car will cost a bomb to insure, more than a genuine Type R.

This is a bottomless pit, and reminds me of the phrase "a fool and his money are easily parted". No one will want to buy an engine swapped, barried up Type S that costs more to insure than a real deal Type R. Unless you are planning on going the route of not declaring the engine change to the insurers / DVLA?

Either way, I'm going to bookmark this thread, your above post on why the Type S is a better Type R than a Type R would bring a smile to my face if I was incarcerated in Abu Graib having my fingernails pulled out with pliers.

EDIT: Btw, it's not an "EP3 Type S", the EP3 chassis code refers to the EP3, the other Civics of that generation, including the Type S, are EP2s.

Edited by Mastodon2 on Wednesday 9th January 21:16

[jbsportstech]

Mastodon2 said:

Why would you want a fully loaded 5 door Type R? You've missed the point.

As with so many people who go down this misguided route, much like sticking some coilovers and a new exhaust on a 330ci doesn't make an M3, the Type R is not just a Type S with an engine thrown in. Cars like this are more than a sum of their parts, you can't replicate the magic by throwing money at the cooking models.

If you do go the route of upgrading the suspension, changing the engine (but not the gearbox, who'd want the close ratio 6 speed when you've got a "beautifully balanced" 5 speed lol) the car will cost a bomb to insure, more than a genuine Type R.

This is a bottomless pit, and reminds me of the phrase "a fool and his money are easily parted". No one will want to buy an engine swapped, barried up Type S that costs more to insure than a real deal Type R. Unless you are planning on going the route of not declaring the engine change to the insurers / DVLA?

Either way, I'm going to bookmark this thread, your above post on why the Type S is a better Type R than a Type R would bring a smile to my face if I was incarcerated in Abu Graib having my fingernails pulled out with pliers.

EDIT: Btw, it's not an "EP3 Type S", the EP3 chassis code refers to the EP3, the other Civics of that generation, including the Type S, are EP2s.

Edited by Mastodon2 on Wednesday 9th January 21:16

I knew there was a reason I went away from car forums.

The best thing you can so to do car is improve the skill and ability of the nut behind the wheel. You can buy the fastest car on the planet but if you can't use the power then wants the point.

This is what I realised a few years ago and why I am happy with a type s instead of a type r and not obessed with having the type r because its the fastest most powerful hatchback ever.

I was simply toying with the idea of some more horse power.

I think the type s is enough as I have nothing to prove but obviously many do.

I wouldn't say better the type r is faster, but makes a lot of compromises and you can pick up a type s vsa for a lot less money and get more toys and a more comfortable usable everyday car, all be it not as magically fast as the type r.

Edited by jbsportstech on Wednesday 9th January 21:42

[Mastodon2]

Anyone looking for the fastest hatch on the block wouldn't go for a naturally aspirated one, when there are plenty of cheap turbocharged ones available that are much cheaper to make faster. Suggesting that a Type R is a better car only if you have something to "prove" with the power is ridiculous, if that is the case then why are you looking to put a Type R engine into your EP2 Type S?

The Type R is not a straight line hero, it's faster than some, slower than others, the joy of the Type R as a drivers car is not the speed, its the engine, the gearbox, the noise, the way the power is delivered and the overall raw feeling of the car. Continue down the path you are on, you'll only end up with something inferior to the real McCoy, yet more expensive to insure.

[jbsportstech]

Mastodon2 said:

Anyone looking for the fastest hatch on the block wouldn't go for a naturally aspirated one, when there are plenty of cheap turbocharged ones available that are much cheaper to make faster. Suggesting that a Type R is a better car only if you have something to "prove" with the power is ridiculous, if that is the case then why are you looking to put a Type R engine into your EP2 Type S?

The Type R is not a straight line hero, it's faster than some, slower than others, the joy of the Type R as a drivers car is not the speed, its the engine, the gearbox, the noise, the way the power is delivered and the overall raw feeling of the car. Continue down the path you are on, you'll only end up with something inferior to the real McCoy, yet more expensive to insure.

I never said I would change the engine just modify it for some more ponies.

Yes I agree it handles as does the type s, had faster hot hatches power isnt everything, yes I agree there is a raw quality you get with the type r which a lot of people like. The noise and the power delivery on the type s is nice and similar all be it not as rapid as the type r. I originally suggested it as a cheaper alternative to the type r if wanted 5 doors more kit but could live with less power.

[Mastodon2]

So what we've concluded is that modifying a Type S makes an alternative to a Type R, but is really nothing like a Type R, nor anywhere near as good. That is why they called it a Type S I believe.

You also did say you were "converting" your engine to "type r". Which surely will make it pretty hefty to insure. In my experience, standard halo models are cheaper to insure than barried up cooking specs, probably because insurers know the kind of people that would barry the basic model rather than drive a standard top of the line model.

Why don't you just get the real thing?

Edited by Mastodon2 on Wednesday 9th January 22:08

[nottyash]

jbsportstech said:

. Best of all they are dead cheap and only cost £215 a year to tax. Mine will do 38-41mpg on a run if driven gently but even with a mix I get 28-34mpg.

So the best bit is saving money, so your gonna bugger it up and fit a type R engine.
Really you cant afford a type r so are talking ballox trying to justify why you bought that hideous Type S, which looks awful.

[jbsportstech]

Mastodon2 said:

So what we've concluded is that modifying a Type S makes an alternative to a Type R, but is really nothing like a Type R, nor anywhere near as good. That is why they called it a Type S I believe.

You also did say you were "converting" your engine to "type r". Which surely will make it pretty hefty to insure. In my experience, standard halo models are cheaper to insure than barried up cooking specs, probably because insurers know the kind of people that would barry the basic model rather than drive a standard top of the line model.

Why don't you just get the real thing?

Edited by Mastodon2 on Wednesday 9th January 22:08

Have you driven both?

It's similar to having a a 5 door focus st or going for the rs. They have the same basic engine and both are sporty but one is faster more focused performer. A lot of people still try and squeeze more power of of st rather than just buying an rs.

Edited by jbsportstech on Wednesday 9th January 22:32

[jbsportstech]

nottyash said:

So the best bit is saving money, so your gonna bugger it up and fit a type R engine.
Really you cant afford a type r so are talking ballox trying to justify why you bought that hideous Type S, which looks awful.

I didn't want a type r!

What do you drive?