The electric car is dead

[thinfourth2]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/01/kpmg-20130...

"Global auto executives have cooled a bit on the prospects for e-mobility, with a majority of automakers from both developed and emerging markets believing that internal combustion engines (ICE) will remain the dominant powertrain for some time"

I can't belive how exciting this is. We can look forward to a future of huge cars with tiny little petrol engines that you can't hear.


I came twice reading this article.


Hopefully this means i can pick a nice cheap 2nd hand nissan leaf

[davepoth]

Makes sense really. The shale gas thing has tipped the balance for hydrocarbons radically in the last couple of years, and the improvement in economy on new cars means that we'll have quite a few more years of proper cars yet.

Battery tech will continue to get pushed by all of the electronic devices we now have, so hopefully the reason we'll get electric cars in the fairly near future is that the range and recharge time have improved so much that they're as good as an ICE.

[kambites]

davepoth said:

Makes sense really. The shale gas thing has tipped the balance for hydrocarbons radically in the last couple of years, and the improvement in economy on new cars means that we'll have quite a few more years of proper cars yet.

I can see little evidence that we have "proper cars" now. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of new mainstream cars under, say, 50k which I consider to have any sort of character.

If that recent piece of research in south Korea lives up to even half its claims, we'll have electric cars capable of being recharged almost as quickly as petrol ones within a few years. The problem is likely to be the infrastructure to charge them.

[MG CHRIS]

So what are proper cars, cars are a mode of transport to get to a-b for the majority of people and most not carring about them, so an electric car when range gets better will start to get more popular fewer things to go wrong and will come down in value.

Why people get so upset about small engines i don't know when a 1.6t can produce more power than say a 2.0+ n/a engine then it's a good thing cheaper tax and better fuel economy in most cases. Would i buy say a new fiesta with a 1.0 turbo engine no, many will though so manafactures have to do it and it's not like v8/v10 powered cars have dissapeared is it.

Surely if more cars go electric/ hydrogen then there will be more petrol about for the petrol heads to enjoy there petrol cars with a good thing right.

[otolith]

MG CHRIS said:

Why people get so upset about small engines i don't know when a 1.6t can produce more power than say a 2.0+ n/a engine

It's not the displacement, it's the cylinder count and power delivery.

[anonymous-user]

All that article does is confirm that Global executives for the big OEM's really don't understand their businesses! Apratently, 12mths ago, 67% of them thought pure EV's would be the majority sellers in their line ups. Well, if i told you that it takes a absolute minimum of 3 years to bring a new platform to the market, and longer if it has alot of new technology and cruically also a new supply chain (like an EV for example). So, those same OEM's think that in approximately one model cycle they can go from making between none and a small handfull of production EV's to those same cars becoming the volume sellers?? er, really?? and how exactly were you going to do that??

[Juffled]

doesnt bode well for renault

[Johnnytheboy]

Juffled said:

doesnt bode well for renault

Just what I was going to say.

As I said in a thread the other day, they've gone too far down the pure electric road to turn round now.

I think the smart money's on the electric cars with a small engine charging the battery.

[Chicane-UK]

I don't see how electric cars still aren't attractive, and viable, for people just wanting to pootle around town and do local commuting? The thought of being able to waft to work and charge my car up there is still hugely appealing.

[thinfourth2]

Chicane-UK said:

I don't see how electric cars still aren't attractive, and viable, for people just wanting to pootle around town and do local commuting? The thought of being able to waft to work and charge my car up there is still hugely appealing.

Ah but when you are a powerfully built company director earning millions a year in your one bedroom flat with no parking you won't be able to charge it

[Getragdogleg]

I am deeply into my American V8 powered cars, I love the rumble and the torque but I also like the idea of a snotty little electric car for gettng me the 5 miles to work and back each day, I built an electric mountain bike to ride to and fro in the summer but in the winter we get drowned down here (Tip of Cornwall) and a nice little battery Vauxhall Nova would be great.

I might build one. I have a snotty old Nova.

[rossub]

The US is set to become self sufficient in oil and gas, swiftly followed by becoming the largest oil producer in the world due to shale. Do you think they'll be converting to electric cars

It's an absolute god-send for the petrol-head.

It would appear that peak oil production is not set to happen for decades now.

[AER]

IMO, the route forward is extreme hybrid powertrains - low-power ICE's with high power EV powertrains for transient operation that allow pure EV in city environments, but make the range problem go away, without having to cart a tonne of batteries around with you.

The other future powertrain I see making an appearance is the double-engined vehicle - cruise engine + accelerate engine. In effect, a real "displacement on demand" system without having to spin a lot of useless and high-friction machinery when you're really looking for best FC.

You read it here first!

[Mike Biddle]

Nah, the future is steam powered, see http://www.cyclonepower.com/index.html

Runs on just about anything that will burn, is very efficient, does not require a gearbox, just connect to drive wheels via a differential.

No complicated electronis or batteries.

Economic to produce install and use.

[Yuxi]

AER said:

IMO, the route forward is extreme hybrid powertrains - low-power ICE's with high power EV powertrains for transient operation that allow pure EV in city environments, but make the range problem go away, without having to cart a tonne of batteries around with you.


You read it here first!

Until the batteries are low, you then have the range but only the power of the low-power ICE carting around electric motors and dead batteries

[thinfourth2]

Yuxi said:

AER said:

IMO, the route forward is extreme hybrid powertrains - low-power ICE's with high power EV powertrains for transient operation that allow pure EV in city environments, but make the range problem go away, without having to cart a tonne of batteries around with you.


You read it here first!

Until the batteries are low, you then have the range but only the power of the low-power ICE carting around electric motors and dead batteries

Of course it is beyond the means of man to start up the generator when the batteries are at 50%

[Yuxi]

thinfourth2 said:

Yuxi said:

AER said:

IMO, the route forward is extreme hybrid powertrains - low-power ICE's with high power EV powertrains for transient operation that allow pure EV in city environments, but make the range problem go away, without having to cart a tonne of batteries around with you.


You read it here first!

Until the batteries are low, you then have the range but only the power of the low-power ICE carting around electric motors and dead batteries

Of course it is beyond the means of man to start up the generator when the batteries are at 50%

The low power generator yes - if the car is demanding more than the low power generator can produce, say a high speed motorway journey, once the initial charge in the batteries is used the only power available is the ICE.

The 414 Evora is very fast round the track for 3 laps, its then a heavy car with a 45kw engine.

[thinfourth2]

Yuxi said:

The low power generator yes - if the car is demanding more than the low power generator can produce, say a high speed motorway journey, once the initial charge in the batteries is used the only power available is the ICE.

The 414 Evora is very fast round the track for 3 laps, its then a heavy car with a 45kw engine.

My micra can do 70Mph with half throttle and it has a teeny weeny 1000cc engine

Of course i'm not a powerfully built photocopiers salesmen desperate to get to his next toner sale so i don't need to be doing 5000mph along the M25

[Chrisw666]

Chicane-UK said:

I don't see how electric cars still aren't attractive, and viable, for people just wanting to pootle around town and do local commuting? The thought of being able to waft to work and charge my car up there is still hugely appealing.

Affordability and lack of flexibility. The fact that few are on the used market helps keep private buyers out of them too.

Electric cars have been relatively expensive, and have short ranges. So for a commute they're fine, but if its your only car (most people only have one per head) and you need to travel further or want to travel further you can't in an electric car.

[98elise]

Yuxi said:

thinfourth2 said:

Yuxi said:

AER said:

IMO, the route forward is extreme hybrid powertrains - low-power ICE's with high power EV powertrains for transient operation that allow pure EV in city environments, but make the range problem go away, without having to cart a tonne of batteries around with you.


You read it here first!

Until the batteries are low, you then have the range but only the power of the low-power ICE carting around electric motors and dead batteries

Of course it is beyond the means of man to start up the generator when the batteries are at 50%

The low power generator yes - if the car is demanding more than the low power generator can produce, say a high speed motorway journey, once the initial charge in the batteries is used the only power available is the ICE.

The 414 Evora is very fast round the track for 3 laps, its then a heavy car with a 45kw engine.

When a car is on a motorway it uses a small proportion of the engines power. The engines power is used during acceleration. The generator only need to produce enough power to sustain the steady speed. If you want to blast around a track then an EV or Hybrid is probably not the car for you.

For most car users an EV would be fine, and for those that need distance a hybrid with a small ICE or micro GT is the future.