Does this harness look safe?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

When fitted to these seats

Using this harness bar

[EDLT]

Define safe, what are you going to be using it for?

[s p a c e m a n]

How thin is your neck and how wide are the poles on the headrest?

Infact, just no, I wouldnt. Why would you want harnesses on seats not designed to have them?

[hyperblue]

A million times no. The bar in the GP is NOT a harness bar!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

EDLT said:

Define safe, what are you going to be using it for?

See below

s p a c e m a n said:

How thin is your neck and how wide are the poles on the headrest?

Infact, just no, I wouldnt. Why would you want harnesses on seats not designed to have them?

My neck is like a size 17 or something
I'd like a harness on the seats to hold me in place on track days

hyperblue said:

A million times no. The bar in the GP is NOT a harness bar!

The bar in the 2013 mini gp is held in to a structural part of the car with four huge bolts, although its not a harness bar having seen the diagram I do believe it's safe enough to hold a harness with regards to strength, whether it is with regards to harness angle, harness strength or positioning is why I'm asking the question

[sjabrown]

Get it done properly or not at all. A poor set-up is dangerous.

Need proper harness bar, mounting points (for the rest of the harness) and seats to suit.

[Robb F]

It's OK don't panic. If you look carefully, you can see it already has two retractable harnesses installed.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

sjabrown said:

Get it done properly or not at all. A poor set-up is dangerous.

Need proper harness bar, mounting points (for the rest of the harness) and seats to suit.

Yes I agree, although I like the fact that a harness helps on track to kep you in place I won't be using one to the detriment of my health!

I'm just not sure if this would be a poor set up? I would of course be using proper eye bolts for the mountings but I've heard mixed reports on whether the seats, the harnesses or the angle of the harness to the bar would be safe.

[vx220]

Two points
You'd need to ensure the headrests don't trap the harnesses
And why not use the upper eyelet for the rear seatbelt for the harness - assuming it's up there in this car

[mrmr96]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

When fitted to these seats

Using this harness bar

Absolutely not.

For 1, the seats are totally unsuitable and 2, that bar isn't a harness bar and 3, that harness won't connect to that bar.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Robb F said:

It's OK don't panic. If you look carefully, you can see it already has two retractable harnesses installed.

Which are great (when here not getting in the way of day to day driving by getting caught between the seat & the door panel) but even with CG belt locks you do tend to move around a bit on track days

[mrmr96]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Robb F said:

It's OK don't panic. If you look carefully, you can see it already has two retractable harnesses installed.

Which are great (when here not getting in the way of day to day driving by getting caught between the seat & the door panel) but even with CG belt locks you do tend to move around a bit on track days

A CG lock is the best product you can install unless you go the whole hog and swap those seats I'm afraid.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

mrmr96 said:

Absolutely not.

For 1, the seats are totally unsuitable and 2, that bar isn't a harness bar and 3, that harness won't connect to that bar.

This is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for but would you care to expand on why?

[Dracoro]

Not to mention the normal seatbelt pre-tensioners ( I assume it has them) which also work in conjunction with the airbags - which will expect some upper body/head to be moving towards it etc.

If it's the odd track day then the existing seatbelts will be fine and they allow you to lean forwards etc.

If you are stripping it out etc. I'd be putting proper mounting points in.

[Mastodon2]

The seats have nothing on them to keep the upper straps in place, not to mention the fact that the belts will scrub the seats and wear the shoulders on them. In an accident, you couldn't rely on the harness to stay in place, they'd slide down the side of the seat as there is nothing to hold them up top.



Note the plastic lined ruts in the hole of the seat above, these are designed to guide a harness and prevent it wearing the seat.

[mrmr96]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

mrmr96 said:

Absolutely not.

For 1, the seats are totally unsuitable and 2, that bar isn't a harness bar and 3, that harness won't connect to that bar.

This is exactly the kind of answer I'm looking for but would you care to expand on why?

1. The seats. They should have holes in them for the shoulder straps ideally, or failing that some people do appear to be able to use harnesses with the normal "removeable headrest" type of seats. But holes for the straps is preferable. The seats you have are not suitable due to the angle at which the shoulder straps will come over/around the seat. They straps will not be able to sit flat across your shoulders.

2. As noted, that bar may well be strong, but it's only designed to carry load in tension. Pulling at it in the middle will bend it. I CBA to do the maths, but work out the load that a 100kg body would pass into that during a 90mph to zero crash. Then multiply by 2 to include the passenger. It may well be ok, but it's not been designed or tested for that. I wouldn't bet my life on it.

3. The harness in your photo is a 3 point harness, where the rear tail is desinged to hook into an eye bolt installed somewhere strong. To attach to a bar you'd need one with "wrap around" style tails. These wrap around a bar and have a metal buckle for tighting/adjustment. These will (exclusively to my knowlege) have separate tails for each shoulder and are hence "4 point" harnesses. So that's two reasons (i) 3 point not 4 point, and (ii) wrong connection, that those harnesses are unsuitable, even if the seat and bar were.

If you're happy to chance yourself on that bar, then you'd still need to swap the seats and choose 4 point wrap around harnesses. The effort/price vs. gain isn't worth it for occasional trackdays IMO, hence the recommendation of the CG lock which will provide about 60% of the stability benefits of a harness, but is cheaper and easier to install.

I've got an Evo 8 whcih has suitable seats, and I started off using a CG lock and then later installed harnesses which fix to eye bolts which are installed in the stock mounting positions for the OEM seatbelts, so I know the terminals are strong. HTH

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Mastodon2 said:

The seats have nothing on them to keep the upper straps in place, not to mention the fact that the belts will scrub the seats and wear the shoulders on them. In an accident, you couldn't rely on the harness to stay in place, they'd slide down the side of the seat as there is nothing to hold them up top.



Note the plastic lined ruts in the hole of the seat above, these are designed to guide a harness and prevent it wearing the seat.

The plastic lined ruts I'm not bothered about, the track use will be infrequent enough (only half a dozen a year these days) not to worry obout wear & tear.

What I'm more bothered about is in the event of an accident the belts sliding down the shoulders of the seats & me flying forwards through them. Or the angle of the belts forcing my puny spine into the seat base & me needing a bag for the rest of my days, not to mention lacking the use of my lower limbs.

A well known supplier has recommended the above for my car & I'm wondering if they really are safe or not.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

mrmr96 said:

Some good stuff

many thanks, exactly the sort of clarification I've been looking for. In all honesty I've looked at the set up advised & just can't see that it's right, however I've seen plenty on track with the same & wondered if I was being over dramatic

Edited to add, with regards to the rear shoulder fastening, this was just a photo example they dent me, what they would end up selling me was the same set up with a roll bar wrap instead of the clip in.

Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Tuesday 15th January 23:23

[Lordbenny]

Westfield have been supplying cars for years with harnesses that go round the outside of the seat. My first Westy had this set up and it wasnt a problem. My current westy has harness holes which are preferable but you dont necessarily need them.

[mrmr96]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

mrmr96 said:

Some good stuff

many thanks, exactly the sort of clarification I've been looking for. In all honesty I've looked at the set up advised & just can't see that it's right, however I've seen plenty on track with the same & wondered if I was being over dramatic

Edited to add, with regards to the rear shoulder fastening, this was just a photo example they dent me, what they would end up selling me was the same set up with a roll bar wrap instead of the clip in.

Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Tuesday 15th January 23:23

Yeah, the harnesses to use with a bar are like these, with two tails over the shoulders which secure using buckles. The spare fabric has been allowed to hang down in this photo. I'd probably roll it up and cable tie it out of the way.


You can also see the difference in the seats which will allow the shoulder straps to sit flat on your shoulders. Your seats won't allow this and that's the main sticking point for your car as is I'm afraid.