What Profession/Job is underpaid?
Discussion
As a sister thread, because the other one has gone a bit negative, who are the unsung heroes? Who do you think deserves more money and why? You are welcome to suggest your own role or profession, but please justify it with what you add in person or as a profession that means you should earn more?
I've got a couple of suggestions, both personally informed so I feel I can speak with authority:
Hydrologists/HydroGeologists.
My Wife is one. On top of a good university degree (Geology) she undertook a few years basic environmental work before self funding to go back to Imperial to do a masters in Hydrology. At the time of doing this it was one of two UK institutions that could give you the founding to do the job and between them they passed just 10 UK graduates a year - the rest were Foreign and often state sponsored.
With regards to the job, it requires sound maths, computer modelling skills (i.e. writing and refining complex models), engineering understanding and project management. Any drinking water in the UK has to be sourced, checked for safety and processed and transported. Flood risk management is the domain of Hydrologists also, and indeed she worked on flood mitigation programmes costing into the tens of millions. One of them was soundly tested this winder, and prevented tewkesbury being without power like it was a couple of years back. They ar also involved in ensuring aquifers aren't polluted or drained.
After 10 years experience including development, planning, delivery testing and mangement of several multi-million pound schemes, professional body membership and continuous development and training, her earnings were about £32k a year with no bonuses and few perks (Mazda 2 company car - the only one on the list with air con).
As evidence that she was undervalued in the UK, half of the people she graduated are now working abroad, and indeed we've just moved to a country that does value her skills and she's tripled her salary.
My second "pitch" is Veterinary nurse.
My sister does this. She's just coming to the end of a 3 year training course alongside work, which is intensive and detailed giving you much of the knowledge of a vet. She has a degree but not in a medical/vet field. It's horrible work, with long hours and her working conditions are very poor - they flagrantly breach employment law and turn around and say "what are you going to do?" She has no progression, you can't go from vet nurse->vet, and she gets paid about £12k a year.
My cousin has been an equestrian vet nurse for a decade in the very heart of Posh England. Her bosses do exceptionally well, she gets paid nothing, works long hours, suffers injury on a regular basis as they won't provide proper equipment to move and restrain the animals, and there is no hope of progression.
The wage is driven I feel by the pool of impressionable young girls who "want to work with animals" but cannot become vets, and this allows wellpaid and profitable business to keep them downtrodden and lowly paid. For the dedication and sacrifice expected for the role, I would expect better pay and a focus on the retention of trained and skilled staff. In stead, you get £12k and abuse if you suggest things could be better. (My sister was sacked from one job for taking her own pet to another vets practice but managed to get her training transferred across to another vets so as not to lose 2 years of study).
I've got a couple of suggestions, both personally informed so I feel I can speak with authority:
Hydrologists/HydroGeologists.
My Wife is one. On top of a good university degree (Geology) she undertook a few years basic environmental work before self funding to go back to Imperial to do a masters in Hydrology. At the time of doing this it was one of two UK institutions that could give you the founding to do the job and between them they passed just 10 UK graduates a year - the rest were Foreign and often state sponsored.
With regards to the job, it requires sound maths, computer modelling skills (i.e. writing and refining complex models), engineering understanding and project management. Any drinking water in the UK has to be sourced, checked for safety and processed and transported. Flood risk management is the domain of Hydrologists also, and indeed she worked on flood mitigation programmes costing into the tens of millions. One of them was soundly tested this winder, and prevented tewkesbury being without power like it was a couple of years back. They ar also involved in ensuring aquifers aren't polluted or drained.
After 10 years experience including development, planning, delivery testing and mangement of several multi-million pound schemes, professional body membership and continuous development and training, her earnings were about £32k a year with no bonuses and few perks (Mazda 2 company car - the only one on the list with air con).
As evidence that she was undervalued in the UK, half of the people she graduated are now working abroad, and indeed we've just moved to a country that does value her skills and she's tripled her salary.
My second "pitch" is Veterinary nurse.
My sister does this. She's just coming to the end of a 3 year training course alongside work, which is intensive and detailed giving you much of the knowledge of a vet. She has a degree but not in a medical/vet field. It's horrible work, with long hours and her working conditions are very poor - they flagrantly breach employment law and turn around and say "what are you going to do?" She has no progression, you can't go from vet nurse->vet, and she gets paid about £12k a year.
My cousin has been an equestrian vet nurse for a decade in the very heart of Posh England. Her bosses do exceptionally well, she gets paid nothing, works long hours, suffers injury on a regular basis as they won't provide proper equipment to move and restrain the animals, and there is no hope of progression.
The wage is driven I feel by the pool of impressionable young girls who "want to work with animals" but cannot become vets, and this allows wellpaid and profitable business to keep them downtrodden and lowly paid. For the dedication and sacrifice expected for the role, I would expect better pay and a focus on the retention of trained and skilled staff. In stead, you get £12k and abuse if you suggest things could be better. (My sister was sacked from one job for taking her own pet to another vets practice but managed to get her training transferred across to another vets so as not to lose 2 years of study).
IT in my experience, mostly though not always.
Employers seem to believe that anyone 18-20 year old who lists computers as a hobby/interest on their CV has the logical and methodical reasoning required to troubleshoot software or computer systems. Thereby through their ignorance vastly dilute the market at the bottom level with a mixture of people who have a genuine passion/interest with those that put some components in a box and 'built a PC' and claim some higher level of expertise.
This then impacts on wages higher up the ladder dragging them down in my opinion. Positions that require a lot of knowledge and expertise.
I think I've been lucky in it personally, eventually anyway as it's taken 4-5 years to get into a position that I think I should have been having left Uni.
Employers seem to believe that anyone 18-20 year old who lists computers as a hobby/interest on their CV has the logical and methodical reasoning required to troubleshoot software or computer systems. Thereby through their ignorance vastly dilute the market at the bottom level with a mixture of people who have a genuine passion/interest with those that put some components in a box and 'built a PC' and claim some higher level of expertise.
This then impacts on wages higher up the ladder dragging them down in my opinion. Positions that require a lot of knowledge and expertise.
I think I've been lucky in it personally, eventually anyway as it's taken 4-5 years to get into a position that I think I should have been having left Uni.
I'll put mine up,
Car mechanic/ technician, what other career do you have to provide your own tools (quite a few thousand pounds worth in my case) work in the often cold & wet workshops & be proficient in mechanics as well as electrics, It & welding among other skills that are needed!!!
It affects our health with breathing in fumes damaging our eyes with welding & bad backs are a complaint of all after bending over bonnets & heavy lifting
To top it all off we have the responsibility that if we f
k up at the very best the customer will be back with a complaint but at the worst we could kill someone.
Garages charge big labour fees for all of these reasons but very little makes it to the staff.
Car mechanic/ technician, what other career do you have to provide your own tools (quite a few thousand pounds worth in my case) work in the often cold & wet workshops & be proficient in mechanics as well as electrics, It & welding among other skills that are needed!!!
It affects our health with breathing in fumes damaging our eyes with welding & bad backs are a complaint of all after bending over bonnets & heavy lifting
To top it all off we have the responsibility that if we f
k up at the very best the customer will be back with a complaint but at the worst we could kill someone.Garages charge big labour fees for all of these reasons but very little makes it to the staff.
neiljohnson said:
I'll put mine up,
Car mechanic/ technician, what other career do you have to provide your own tools (quite a few thousand pounds worth in my case) work in the often cold & wet workshops & be proficient in mechanics as well as electrics, It & welding among other skills that are needed!!!
It affects our health with breathing in fumes damaging our eyes with welding & bad backs are a complaint of all after bending over bonnets & heavy lifting
To top it all off we have the responsibility that if we fk up at the very best the customer will be back with a complaint but at the worst we could kill someone.
Garages charge big labour fees for all of these reasons but very little makes it to the staff.
Was just about to say exactly this anyone who thinks it easy it's really is not so many different cars and sytems to learn about on top of cold, wet, lifting heavy parts etc.Car mechanic/ technician, what other career do you have to provide your own tools (quite a few thousand pounds worth in my case) work in the often cold & wet workshops & be proficient in mechanics as well as electrics, It & welding among other skills that are needed!!!
It affects our health with breathing in fumes damaging our eyes with welding & bad backs are a complaint of all after bending over bonnets & heavy lifting
To top it all off we have the responsibility that if we f
k up at the very best the customer will be back with a complaint but at the worst we could kill someone.Garages charge big labour fees for all of these reasons but very little makes it to the staff.
Drain cleaners. I have had some severe drainage issues at home in the last year. Each time, the water company sends a truck and 2 blokes along.
These guys dive into knee deep st, to clear up our waste. It stinks and its hard work. The work long hours and I guess unsociable hours too. In an overflow emergency they visited me at 2am on Xmas eve!
I'm guessing at best they are on minimum wage. On their Xmas visit, I gave the two blokes a crate of lager to share and they were very humble and grateful. One of them commented that a crate of 24 was an hours wages!
Unsung heroes, IMHO
These guys dive into knee deep s
t, to clear up our waste. It stinks and its hard work. The work long hours and I guess unsociable hours too. In an overflow emergency they visited me at 2am on Xmas eve!I'm guessing at best they are on minimum wage. On their Xmas visit, I gave the two blokes a crate of lager to share and they were very humble and grateful. One of them commented that a crate of 24 was an hours wages!
Unsung heroes, IMHO
eltax91 said:
Drain cleaners. I have had some severe drainage issues at home in the last year. Each time, the water company sends a truck and 2 blokes along.
These guys dive into knee deep st, to clear up our waste. It stinks and its hard work. The work long hours and I guess unsociable hours too. In an overflow emergency they visited me at 2am on Xmas eve!
I'm guessing at best they are on minimum wage. On their Xmas visit, I gave the two blokes a crate of lager to share and they were very humble and grateful. One of them commented that a crate of 24 was an hours wages!
Unsung heroes, IMHO
They need to get to London thenThese guys dive into knee deep s
t, to clear up our waste. It stinks and its hard work. The work long hours and I guess unsociable hours too. In an overflow emergency they visited me at 2am on Xmas eve!I'm guessing at best they are on minimum wage. On their Xmas visit, I gave the two blokes a crate of lager to share and they were very humble and grateful. One of them commented that a crate of 24 was an hours wages!
Unsung heroes, IMHO
On that Channel 4 programme a few weeks back, the drain workers were on £100-150k. Couldn't believe what I was hearing
I forget what the programme was called but basically the wage of each staff member within the company was revealed and they attempted to get some back off the top earners for the those earning sod all. Drain men were laughing compared to the lads in the body shop for example who were on somewhere between 20-30k, the lass in the kitchen was on £13k (I think) and could only just afford her travel to work
Most hands on and low level white collar is underpaid.
We're still stuck in the past with regard to earnings, 15 years ago you could pick up a house in my road for £80k and £20k was considered a good wage.
Now the house has tripled in price, as have many essentials bills, fuel etc, but too many people still act like £25k is having made it, while Britain in comparison to other countries is socially regressing.
We're still stuck in the past with regard to earnings, 15 years ago you could pick up a house in my road for £80k and £20k was considered a good wage.
Now the house has tripled in price, as have many essentials bills, fuel etc, but too many people still act like £25k is having made it, while Britain in comparison to other countries is socially regressing.
WeirdNeville said:
My second "pitch" is Veterinary nurse.
My sister does this. She's just coming to the end of a 3 year training course alongside work, which is intensive and detailed giving you much of the knowledge of a vet. She has a degree but not in a medical/vet field. It's horrible work, with long hours and her working conditions are very poor - they flagrantly breach employment law and turn around and say "what are you going to do?" She has no progression, you can't go from vet nurse->vet, and she gets paid about £12k a year.
Pretty sure to be a vet you have to train for 8 years or so, which is a lot longer than the training your sister had to do.My sister does this. She's just coming to the end of a 3 year training course alongside work, which is intensive and detailed giving you much of the knowledge of a vet. She has a degree but not in a medical/vet field. It's horrible work, with long hours and her working conditions are very poor - they flagrantly breach employment law and turn around and say "what are you going to do?" She has no progression, you can't go from vet nurse->vet, and she gets paid about £12k a year.
Same situaution with doctors and nurses. A lot less supply of doctors than nurses, probably as to be a doctor you need to train for a long time and be educated very highly in your speciality, hence higher salary for doctors. Although I do think nurses are under paid and in a number of cases work harder than doctors...
Juanco20 said:
They need to get to London then
On that Channel 4 programme a few weeks back, the drain workers were on £100-150k. Couldn't believe what I was hearing
I forget what the programme was called but basically the wage of each staff member within the company was revealed and they attempted to get some back off the top earners for the those earning sod all. Drain men were laughing compared to the lads in the body shop for example who were on somewhere between 20-30k, the lass in the kitchen was on £13k (I think) and could only just afford her travel to work
That was Pimlico Plumbers, Plumbers to the "stars" On that Channel 4 programme a few weeks back, the drain workers were on £100-150k. Couldn't believe what I was hearing
I forget what the programme was called but basically the wage of each staff member within the company was revealed and they attempted to get some back off the top earners for the those earning sod all. Drain men were laughing compared to the lads in the body shop for example who were on somewhere between 20-30k, the lass in the kitchen was on £13k (I think) and could only just afford her travel to work
Was an interesting programme though!!
When I did GCSE science, all we did was pay the school for essentially information and activity books for pyshics, biology, and chemistry, then worked through them for the year, all the while the teacher talked us through them and had a master copy at the front with slightly more detail, and all the answers, all complying to the syllabus, because it was made to adhere to it. Then when I was at college the lecturers were still using their notes and handouts from 6 years previously, whenever a teaching subject is approached on here on any other forum, lesson planning/planning for the next year, is always touted out as some sort of big deal, and blown well out of proportion compared to what it actually is, as if the teachers themselves have got to go out and make ground breaking discoveries in the field of English language, maths, or chemistry and then convey that to children? When in reality, they get a syllabus quite similar to last years syllabus, crack open a Letts Key Stage book, and check that their current lesson plan hasn't gone out of date, and tweak it if it has gone out of date, then plant all this stuff back into the binder it came out of, take off the label saying 2012 lesson plan, and replace it with a label saying 2013 lesson plan.
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