Simple question

[ROBSROCKET]

Ladys and Gents,

a few questions really. the first is a mate has just purchased a new civic type-r, will a standard S2 ST beat the honda pocket rocket?

Also have been looking at S2's in the ST dresscode but have started more and more to like the 111s. the question is this: is the 111s worth the extra money of a) buying the car and b) the extra arse kicking the insurance company will give me?

cheers
Rob

[S Works]

Yes

[nightmare]

oh definitely!

[bogie]

beat it in what way - around a circuit? - circuit yes if tight n twisty...on a motorway...nope...the CTR will leave you over 90mph

[black_potato]

grin factor and not looking like a chav... the Elise wins hands down....
The 111s would be closer to the CTR on a motorway... But you dont by an Elise to drive around the M25.... Unless your Bogie
Yes... in my view the 111s engine is worth the extra. Drive them both and see what you think.

[tom_allen]

black_potato said:

grin factor and not looking like a chav

Hello,

I am the mate Rob is talking about and I have to point out that at the moment the CTR is not a chav car! Fortunately the residuals are not that low that a chav could afford to purchase one

[Davey S1]

I dont think CTR's are Chav cars at all(unless you stick loads of cappy styling mods on it) Not driven one but a good car if you need to couple decent performance and practicality.

Stil rather an Elise though

[S Works]

tom_allen said:

black_potato said: grin factor and not looking like a chav Hello, I am the mate Rob is talking about and I have to point out that at the moment the CTR is not a chav car! Fortunately the residuals are not that low that a chav could afford to purchase one

No you're right - it's an old biddies car on steriods.

...but they do look pretty nice in black tho'

[NightFall111S]

I very nearly bought a CTR a while ago. The engine is awesome. The kick that you get on cam reminded me of the sensation of the old turbo cars..nothing, nothing, a bit more then...BAM The gear box is great too. A friend of mine has just bought an 02 and I made her promise to let me have a drive.

I've got an S2 111S and to answer the question IMHO a standard elise is quicker in both a straight line and around the bends unless you are getting up to silly speeds. I feel a lot more confident pushing a hatch in the wet rather than a rear engine rear drive car but that's because I'm just learning to drive properly at the moment. I felt the Elise was a bit more fun and the CTR a bit more practical.

Go drive an Elise, you won't regret it!

[S Works]

NightFall111S said:

I very nearly bought a CTR a while ago. The engine is awesome. The kick that you get on cam reminded me of the sensation of the old turbo cars..nothing, nothing, a bit more then...BAM The gear box is great too. A friend of mine has just bought an 02 and I made her promise to let me have a drive. I've got an S2 111S and to answer the question IMHO a standard elise is quicker in both a straight line and around the bends unless you are getting up to silly speeds. I feel a lot more confident pushing a hatch in the wet rather than a rear engine rear drive car but that's because I'm just learning to drive properly at the moment. I felt the Elise was a bit more fun and the CTR a bit more practical. Go drive an Elise, you won't regret it!

Interesting comment Night - I too was considering a CTR as a "sensible" option before I saw sense and bought the car I deserved! My biggest beef was that to really enjoy it you'd have to wring it's neck to keep in the powerband. In the end I never bothered test-driving one because I knew that it was RWD for me or nothing at all. Several friends who've tested them and/or owned them said they were put off by that aspect but loved everything else. One guy (car since sold) said if there was more down low grunt you'd probably have one the greatest hot hatches ever made... I'm surprised Honda hasn't done something about that frankly.

[Ju.]

Honda will not give the car more low down grunt because it would mean they will have to make there apparently super amizing engine long stroke. At the moment what they have done they put a highly tuned short stroke engine in that is easier to make rev higher and making it rev higher is an easier way to more power.

[tom_allen]

Got to admit, I have since got shut of the Civic and now own an S1 Exige!! I had two type-r's and the first (pre facelift) was by far the best!!

[Just1]

Got rid of my CTR a year ago and now have a standard elise. I would say the elise is quicker off the mark than the civic and handling is in a differant league. The ctr pulls more over motorway speeds and is of course more ,practical it just depends what your after(Can get a weeked bag and shopping in the elise but thats about it!). 111s/r and exige really makes the performance look a bit average and i would say worth the extra dosh.I have Been taken out or driven in most of the cars recently.

Of course Lotus has way more presence on the road!!

>> Edited by Just1 on Thursday 31st March 19:59

[gooby]

The CTR who wanted a race on the M6 toll didnt last long.....

(wasnt me, cant proove it...)

[NightFall111S]

Agree with your point on keeping it in the powerband S Works. There's just something about those high revving engines that I like though, hence I'm staying away from 111R's at the dealers. I suspect they have all the good features of that type of engine but are easier to keep in the band.

I'm doing a 1st Lotus day in just over a week with 3 friends: S1 111S, S2 135, My S2 111S and a Honda S2K. I'm looking forward to getting a go in the S2K back-to-back with the others. Will report back soon.

[S Works]

gooby said:

The CTR who wanted a race on the M6 toll didnt last long..... (wasnt me, cant proove it...)

Good lad

NightFall111S said:

I'm doing a 1st Lotus day in just over a week with 3 friends: S1 111S, S2 135, My S2 111S and a Honda S2K. I'm looking forward to getting a go in the S2K back-to-back with the others. Will report back soon.

Nice one, look forward to reading about that

Tim

[dannylt]

Bah - the CTR engine has bags more torque low down than the standard K-series, and is generally much more driveable at low revs. Obviously it's in a different world when the revs rise! I can compare directly since I had the standard 118bhp K-series replaced by a CTR engine in my Elise.

[S Works]

dannylt said:

I can compare directly since I had the standard 118bhp K-series replaced by a CTR engine in my Elise.

Interesting danny - quick Q from the unitiated... do they tweak the ECU/engine map at all when they drop the lump into the 'liz or is it exactly as it was before it left the Honda?

[gooby]

I LOVE HONDA ENGINES. They are superb and are far better than a k series and I hate to say in but they are also better than the toyota lump (toyota power band is too short). I dont t ink you can fairly compare a ctr to an elise. The ctr is a hot hatch. The engine is sublime but so what? The engine is in the wrong place, the drive is to the wrong wheels and there are far too many seats and luggage space therefore it is too heavy. It is a compromise from the first moment.

Quoting motorway speeds is silly. over 85-90 you are going to get pulled (as i found out yesterday) and even a 118bhp s1 will see off a ctr at these speeds. The elise is the wrong car for motorways anyway. If you are so concerned with motorways buy a cheap shaguar and relax in the armchair.

Bottom line is (even though I love honda R's) the ctr is a family's practical car made to go quick and the elise is a no compromise sportscar.

Get off the motorway so you can go quick. I mean get round corners like crazy, accelerate through the straights and overtake in almost any oppertunity. motorways are not fun.

[randy]

I have an S1 Exige with a Honda K20 engine and it's a killer combo!

The 'kick in the back' you get with the Civic has gone as mine has been remapped. The only reason the Civic behaves like that is marketing and it's very pointless. With my remap you can hardly feel the cam change and I have loads of low down torque whilst still keeping the top end power - much better.