Wow -- chip an exhaust and the SE really wakes up
Discussion
I really liked my 93 SE before. Now, after treating it to a chip (which I was hesitant to do) and a less restrictive exhaust, the supercar within really came out. Accleration is FIERCE with 280 rwhp or so, and the car actually sounds like a car now as opposed to a dentist's drill.
I was hesitant to do the mods, but they were simple and can be reversed easily. Four bolts and the exhaust is back on; the chip maybe 30 minutes. Highly recommended.
I was hesitant to do the mods, but they were simple and can be reversed easily. Four bolts and the exhaust is back on; the chip maybe 30 minutes. Highly recommended.
JeffYoung said:
Accleration is FIERCE with 280 rwhp or so, and the car actually sounds like a car now as opposed to a dentist's drill.
Dyno your car and you'll be VERY surprised what a chip and exhaust really give you.
Luke.
www.karmavore.net/ladyjane
221RWHP
>> Edited by karmavore on Tuesday 14th September 17:11
Mark --
I did remove the cat. The exhaust was actually hand made by Ron Earp here in Raleigh. It's far simpler than people think -- an exhaust is simply tubing, a muffler and a welder.
Now, I'm not capable of welding so if I had to do it again, I'd just go to a custom muffler/exhaust shop. Since the exhuast is so short, I suspect one could be made for only a couple of hundred dollars. From there, it is four bolts on the heat shield on the right rear wheel well, three on where the exhaust flange meets the turbo and two bracket bolts on the bottom of the car. A snap. Keep the old one and bolt it back on for emissions tests.
As far as chips go, go with an S4s chip or a variant of it. More power. The high torque #3 modified by Ron is what I believe I have (as coded by Marcus, the chip is very rich and Ron has leaned it out some although it is still very safe, well above stoich if I recall).
I was very hesitant to make these mods to a very good running stock 93.5 Esprit. I've had a few niggles with the install, and cold idea is a bit hairy now (revs between 1800 and 2200 rpm for the first few minutes) but the WOW factor once warmed up and on full boost (now 1.2 bar) is tremendous. The car has a new, much more aggressive sound and charachter.
Karmavore, I believe you raised the issue of your dyno plot before. Ron dynoed his car and got 280 rwhp with the exhaust and chip, and gets 340 or so now with a bigger turbo. Others have reported similar results. As was pointed out to you, something wasn't right with your Esprit that day. These cars are reliable, but peak performance can be finicky. I suspect you were not making full sustained boost, which happens quite often with these cars depending on temperature.
In fact, when people ask "How fast is it?" my initial response is always "What's the temperature outside?"
While I never baslined my car (should have) it is in good shape and low miles. With the chip and exhaust it is, and trust me on this, significantly faster.
Check out the boost situation on your car and then dyno it and again and see what you find out.
Jeff
I did remove the cat. The exhaust was actually hand made by Ron Earp here in Raleigh. It's far simpler than people think -- an exhaust is simply tubing, a muffler and a welder.
Now, I'm not capable of welding so if I had to do it again, I'd just go to a custom muffler/exhaust shop. Since the exhuast is so short, I suspect one could be made for only a couple of hundred dollars. From there, it is four bolts on the heat shield on the right rear wheel well, three on where the exhaust flange meets the turbo and two bracket bolts on the bottom of the car. A snap. Keep the old one and bolt it back on for emissions tests.
As far as chips go, go with an S4s chip or a variant of it. More power. The high torque #3 modified by Ron is what I believe I have (as coded by Marcus, the chip is very rich and Ron has leaned it out some although it is still very safe, well above stoich if I recall).
I was very hesitant to make these mods to a very good running stock 93.5 Esprit. I've had a few niggles with the install, and cold idea is a bit hairy now (revs between 1800 and 2200 rpm for the first few minutes) but the WOW factor once warmed up and on full boost (now 1.2 bar) is tremendous. The car has a new, much more aggressive sound and charachter.
Karmavore, I believe you raised the issue of your dyno plot before. Ron dynoed his car and got 280 rwhp with the exhaust and chip, and gets 340 or so now with a bigger turbo. Others have reported similar results. As was pointed out to you, something wasn't right with your Esprit that day. These cars are reliable, but peak performance can be finicky. I suspect you were not making full sustained boost, which happens quite often with these cars depending on temperature.
In fact, when people ask "How fast is it?" my initial response is always "What's the temperature outside?"
While I never baslined my car (should have) it is in good shape and low miles. With the chip and exhaust it is, and trust me on this, significantly faster.
Check out the boost situation on your car and then dyno it and again and see what you find out.
Jeff
techspy said:
You removed the cat? What about passing emmissions? I have been thinking of buying a performance cat that flows better. I would rather go with none but dont think I would be able to pass emmissions.
John
94 S4
if emissions woorry you, save your cat. It is aquick swap when/if you need it.
JeffYoung said:
Karmavore, I believe you raised the issue of your dyno plot before. Ron dynoed his car and got 280 rwhp with the exhaust and chip,
Show me the plot.
280 at the **wheels** means ~322 at the fly wheel, and even if he ran the car in the Arctic I doubt that's possible with just a chip and no cat....
Luke.
>> Edited by karmavore on Wednesday 15th September 14:45
karmavore said:
280 at the **wheels** means ~322 at the fly wheel, and even if he ran the car in the Arctic I doubt that's possible with just a chip and no cat....
Luke.
>> Edited by karmavore on Wednesday 15th September 14:45
I have seen his plot as well. I know he has a lesser one with just a high TQ chip and exhaust in the turboesprit list files section showing 268WHP. Add .2 bar (just over 3 psi) of boost and an additional 15WHP is easily attainable.
>> Edited by NJGSX96 on Wednesday 15th September 15:30
I have been on travel and will be for the next few days so missed a lot of this.
I have tried over the last 1.5 years to get as much power as possible from the Lotus motor without doing anything internal (but, might start since the Jensen will baptise me on the motor). I have a number of different chips, 6 I think, two from Marcus, one or two that I don't know where they came from, and the MKII and MKV codes for the S4s plus the stock SE stuff.
My original baseline with the car and Markus' #3 chip with no cat and a good exhaust netted 267 rear wheel hp, or thereabouts. Plots here:
www.gt40s.com/images/lotus/lotusearp.jpg
I thought this was pretty good and the chip really woke the car up over stock. As pointed out a year ago - no, I didn't dyno the car stock before the changes, but, the changes were dramatic.
We found the output was highly dependant on outside temp, as you might expect, and heat soak, so this was the best it did for a baseline. Wtih the help of a GM computer buddy we downloaded and looked at code for a lot of these chips and tried to see if anything could be improved. We got the car up to 280ish rear wheel but I really don't know if any of the tweaks helped or not. The biggest thing that helps of course, is boost. Again, temps and outside conditions could change this a lot too. It is finicky, IMHO.
I still felt the car was too rich but I haven't figured out anything that really seems to help this. I don't know so much about tweaking the code but we have tried with not much luck, I think. Rich is safe, but it also robs power at the levels the car exhibits. My personal view is smaller secondary injectors might help out since the fuel really flows at WOT.
As for the results posted eariler my guess is that you're not getting and sustaining full boost. I have some plots running around somewhere with my same car, that generated 280ish, making about 225 rear wheel in 85-90F weather when it wouldn't provide much more than 0.75 bar boost. And, this continually bleed off from a high of 0.75 down to 0.4 bar at the end of the run as it got heat saturated. So, Jeff's comment about how hot it is outside, is, in my opinion, right on. I imagine if you go on a nice cool day you'll see that improve. Also, you might want to use a mechanical boost gauge tied in the engine compartment to verifiy what you are getting. We do that at the place I go and it is nice to see, jsut in case you wonder about your gauge.
We used the same Dynojet dyno and I'm not opening a discussion about dyno results or numbers etc. But, Jeff has been wanting to dyno his car that now has basically the same setup as mine did a year ago. Mine isn't running right now because I damaged something, either the memcal or the computer, a couple of weeks ago doing another chip swap on it. But, I got another memcal on the way and will get mine back on the road. Once done, we'll take both the cars locally and run them for comparisons. In fact, any other Lotus folks in the NC region want to come? We could make a dyno day out of it maybe in October sometime?
Ron
I have tried over the last 1.5 years to get as much power as possible from the Lotus motor without doing anything internal (but, might start since the Jensen will baptise me on the motor). I have a number of different chips, 6 I think, two from Marcus, one or two that I don't know where they came from, and the MKII and MKV codes for the S4s plus the stock SE stuff.
My original baseline with the car and Markus' #3 chip with no cat and a good exhaust netted 267 rear wheel hp, or thereabouts. Plots here:
www.gt40s.com/images/lotus/lotusearp.jpg
I thought this was pretty good and the chip really woke the car up over stock. As pointed out a year ago - no, I didn't dyno the car stock before the changes, but, the changes were dramatic.
We found the output was highly dependant on outside temp, as you might expect, and heat soak, so this was the best it did for a baseline. Wtih the help of a GM computer buddy we downloaded and looked at code for a lot of these chips and tried to see if anything could be improved. We got the car up to 280ish rear wheel but I really don't know if any of the tweaks helped or not. The biggest thing that helps of course, is boost. Again, temps and outside conditions could change this a lot too. It is finicky, IMHO.
I still felt the car was too rich but I haven't figured out anything that really seems to help this. I don't know so much about tweaking the code but we have tried with not much luck, I think. Rich is safe, but it also robs power at the levels the car exhibits. My personal view is smaller secondary injectors might help out since the fuel really flows at WOT.
As for the results posted eariler my guess is that you're not getting and sustaining full boost. I have some plots running around somewhere with my same car, that generated 280ish, making about 225 rear wheel in 85-90F weather when it wouldn't provide much more than 0.75 bar boost. And, this continually bleed off from a high of 0.75 down to 0.4 bar at the end of the run as it got heat saturated. So, Jeff's comment about how hot it is outside, is, in my opinion, right on. I imagine if you go on a nice cool day you'll see that improve. Also, you might want to use a mechanical boost gauge tied in the engine compartment to verifiy what you are getting. We do that at the place I go and it is nice to see, jsut in case you wonder about your gauge.
We used the same Dynojet dyno and I'm not opening a discussion about dyno results or numbers etc. But, Jeff has been wanting to dyno his car that now has basically the same setup as mine did a year ago. Mine isn't running right now because I damaged something, either the memcal or the computer, a couple of weeks ago doing another chip swap on it. But, I got another memcal on the way and will get mine back on the road. Once done, we'll take both the cars locally and run them for comparisons. In fact, any other Lotus folks in the NC region want to come? We could make a dyno day out of it maybe in October sometime?
Ron
When the local shop gets a spot open (and I get some time), I will go dyno with the 330HP chip (#5). I have a #6 on the way once I send the money and will go dyno that as well. You all have me curious. I will also dyno on the #3 HI TQ chip since I have one as well. Might take a while to get results but I do have mroe time since I won't be so pre-occupied anymore getting my Talon into the 11s.
Also, on the subject of boost guages, you can replace the stock one with a mechanical if you want to always see what the real boost is. Sanj has some good pics on his site to help with the install and the VDO gauge you can get to replace the stocker is pretty stock looking.
Also, on the subject of boost guages, you can replace the stock one with a mechanical if you want to always see what the real boost is. Sanj has some good pics on his site to help with the install and the VDO gauge you can get to replace the stocker is pretty stock looking.
Marcus' numbver six chip (I think that was the last one I bought from him) is pretty good and you should like it. Smoother than the other chips I have or have changed. It will be interesting to see what sort of numbers you come up with.
As for the other results, if it is a hot humid day in Atlanta then you'll have a hard time making power.
Jeff and I will be (soon I hope with time) chartering up a SE Lotus Owners Group with the main club. I know the two operators of the two dynos in the raleigh/Durham area and they do dyno days with a cookout, etc. that are a lot of fun. Any interest in making a day out of this for SE Lotus owners?? Benson or Durham are the ones I know and it'd be easy to arrange. Might could also tee it in with some trips to the local track VIR for spectating, or 1/4 for some runs.
Ron
As for the other results, if it is a hot humid day in Atlanta then you'll have a hard time making power.
Jeff and I will be (soon I hope with time) chartering up a SE Lotus Owners Group with the main club. I know the two operators of the two dynos in the raleigh/Durham area and they do dyno days with a cookout, etc. that are a lot of fun. Any interest in making a day out of this for SE Lotus owners?? Benson or Durham are the ones I know and it'd be easy to arrange. Might could also tee it in with some trips to the local track VIR for spectating, or 1/4 for some runs.
Ron
Damn it Ron, why you gotta be so far away. I'd be up for that. 
Anyway, I went from the stock S4 chip to the #3 to now the #5. From what I can tell...
Stock S4 was, eh, OK... but good if I did the trick to get 1 bar. otherwise, power felt anemic.
#3 was hard hitting off th ebat but so erratic. I would have 1 bar to 4K then .75 until 5K and then it would creep back to 1bar. Karmavore's dyno plot shows what I felt. Hated it.
#5 is smooth and sweet. It is the 330HP chip with 1.2bar max. Boost doesn't hit hard but it is so smooth and boost gauge pegs and never drops.
#6, known as red race, sounds like it is like #5 with a touch more top end and a little more boost all around in the rpm range. Can't wait.
I am trying to set up some time with a friends shop but his dyno is backed up for 5 weeks. It is a dynojet and I would prefer to stick with that since these are the dynos you guys have used so far. I do have another shop with a Mustang dyno and while it may read lower, I can still use it to compare my chips. I'll see what i can work.
Anyway, I went from the stock S4 chip to the #3 to now the #5. From what I can tell...
Stock S4 was, eh, OK... but good if I did the trick to get 1 bar. otherwise, power felt anemic.
#3 was hard hitting off th ebat but so erratic. I would have 1 bar to 4K then .75 until 5K and then it would creep back to 1bar. Karmavore's dyno plot shows what I felt. Hated it.
#5 is smooth and sweet. It is the 330HP chip with 1.2bar max. Boost doesn't hit hard but it is so smooth and boost gauge pegs and never drops.
#6, known as red race, sounds like it is like #5 with a touch more top end and a little more boost all around in the rpm range. Can't wait.
I am trying to set up some time with a friends shop but his dyno is backed up for 5 weeks. It is a dynojet and I would prefer to stick with that since these are the dynos you guys have used so far. I do have another shop with a Mustang dyno and while it may read lower, I can still use it to compare my chips. I'll see what i can work.
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