Appex or Eibach lowering spings

[rich68a]

I am now going to lower my 2006 Audi A3 8P 2.0TFSI S-Line.
I am keeping the 18" RS alloys and have measured with the garage that 30mm drop will look good without being too low.

The quote between the 2 springs are as follows.
Appex lowering springs £278 all in
Eibach lowering springs £317.

I am doing this for looks and don't race about the streets but do not want a really harsh ride.
I know Appex are a middle of the range springs but are not cheap, nasty ones.

Is it really worth the extra £39??

I know its only £39 but no one would just throw away £39 on the floor for no gain.

Advice please

[300bhp/ton]

rich68a said:

Audi A3

I am doing this for looks

Advice please

Honestly. Well it's a shopping car, lowering won'tt make it look better but it will make it ride even worse than Audi's standard setup.

Personally I'd rather spend the money on something more worthwhile. However if you must and if it's only for looks, why do you care which'll be the better?

[rhinochopig]

Personally I think they make the handling horrible. My Evo came with them on and they lasted a week before they were swapped for some standard springs. It just wouldn't hold a line mid corner as it skipped from ridge to ridge - awful things IMO.

If you're sweating a £40 difference, don't forget to add in the cost of a geometry set-up session as well. Taking off and then refitting your dampers will leave the geo all over the place.


ETA There's a nice article on the MLR on why lowering springs are a bad idea.

http://www.lancerregister.com/art_suspensionsystem...

Edited by rhinochopig on Thursday 24th January 15:58

[adeel_gt]

For the price diffrence eibach every time compared to the apex springs

[DanielSan]

Eibach. I wouldn't fit any other lowering springs to a car after having them on my last car. The ride quality will be a hell of a lot better than Apex stuff, and they do make a difference to handling.

[ohtari]

rich68a said:

I am now going to lower my 2006 Audi A3 8P 2.0TFSI S-Line.
18" RS alloys
£278 all in
£317.

I know its only £39 but no one would just throw away £39 on the floor for no gain.

The way I see it, you'll be throwing away £278 for no gain anyway, so why not go the whole fking hog???


Seriously? lowering an A3 on 18" alloys, you mad? Do you enjoy the jarring agony of your vertebrae smashing together?

I believe you're in the process of getting it remapped, so why would you then make it all but useless on the road?

Save your money and leave it stock, the ride will be bad enough with those alloys anyway!

[rich68a]

How much difference do the alloys make?

[DanielSan]

ohtari said:

The way I see it, you'll be throwing away £278 for no gain anyway, so why not go the whole fking hog???


Seriously? lowering an A3 on 18" alloys, you mad? Do you enjoying the jarring agony of your vertebrae smashing together?

I believe you're in the process of getting it remapped, so why would you then make it all but useless on the road?

Save your money and leave it stock, the ride will be bad enough with those alloys anyway!

You are aware that a set of lowering springs are hardly going to lower it to a point of undrivable? It's a 30mm drop at best, and given that Audi offer 18's as an optional extra how is it going to ride terribly?? It will hardly be useless on the road.

[marksbike]

I've got Eibach on my MK3 golf, it does give a better look/stance and the ride is very good, not too harsh but loads better than the standard springs but it did f**k up the handling. I had to go and get all the wheel alinement re-done, once this was done the handling has improved.

[DanielSan]

marksbike said:

I've got Eibach on my MK3 golf, it does give a better look/stance and the ride is very good, not too harsh but loads better than the standard springs but it did f**k up the handling. I had to go and get all the wheel alinement re-done, once this was done the handling has improved.

Standard thing to do no matter how you lower a car though. And worth every penny.

[Loplop]

I always see lowering a car with the method of lowering springs to be a massive no-no, for the same reasons chopping coils out is severely frowned upon, albeit not quite as extreme.

The shock absorbers your car left the factory with work in conjunction with the springs, you suddenly provide the shocks with shorter or stiffer springs and your whole car gets bouncy-bouncy and extremely unpredictable mid corner. The only two 'proper' routes are to fit coilovers, which are mightily expensive for anything with the slightest bit of quality, or to upgrade your shock absorbers at the same time as your springs.

You may only being doing this for looks (I assume that's why you want your turbo to go 'PSH' as well) but just fitting springs can make your car drive like a bag of spanners and I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Then again, I'm probably wasting my breath because I actually know what I'm talking about.

[300bhp/ton]

DanielSan said:

ohtari said:

The way I see it, you'll be throwing away £278 for no gain anyway, so why not go the whole fking hog???


Seriously? lowering an A3 on 18" alloys, you mad? Do you enjoying the jarring agony of your vertebrae smashing together?

I believe you're in the process of getting it remapped, so why would you then make it all but useless on the road?

Save your money and leave it stock, the ride will be bad enough with those alloys anyway!

You are aware that a set of lowering springs are hardly going to lower it to a point of undrivable? It's a 30mm drop at best, and given that Audi offer 18's as an optional extra how is it going to ride terribly?? It will hardly be useless on the road.

30mm lower means 30mm less compression travel, so depending on how the spring, damper and bushes are may mean it'll hit the bump stops too easily, which is unpleasant and hinders ability.

A heavy spring will prevent this, but then it'll ride awful and likely bounce too much.

Lets not forget Audi aren't exactly known for their compliant rides either.

[rhinochopig]

DanielSan said:

ohtari said:

The way I see it, you'll be throwing away £278 for no gain anyway, so why not go the whole fking hog???


Seriously? lowering an A3 on 18" alloys, you mad? Do you enjoying the jarring agony of your vertebrae smashing together?

I believe you're in the process of getting it remapped, so why would you then make it all but useless on the road?

Save your money and leave it stock, the ride will be bad enough with those alloys anyway!

You are aware that a set of lowering springs are hardly going to lower it to a point of undrivable? It's a 30mm drop at best, and given that Audi offer 18's as an optional extra how is it going to ride terribly?? It will hardly be useless on the road.

You need to read up about roll-centre and how lowering affects it. Fitting lowering springs can drop the roll centre to the point where you actually increase body roll, which means mid corner you have even less wheel travel and an even harder working damper.

[300bhp/ton]

rich68a said:

How much difference do the alloys make?

Depends. More alloy means less rubber sidewall, so less to absorb shocks and bumps, which means the suspension has to cope with more. It's for this very reason that most rally cars tend to run taller profile tyres.

[rich68a]

Loplop said:

I always see lowering a car with the method of lowering springs to be a massive no-no, for the same reasons chopping coils out is severely frowned upon, albeit not quite as extreme.

The shock absorbers your car left the factory with work in conjunction with the springs, you suddenly provide the shocks with shorter or stiffer springs and your whole car gets bouncy-bouncy and extremely unpredictable mid corner. The only two 'proper' routes are to fit coilovers, which are mightily expensive for anything with the slightest bit of quality, or to upgrade your shock absorbers at the same time as your springs.

You may only being doing this for looks (I assume that's why you want your turbo to go 'PSH' as well) but just fitting springs can make your car drive like a bag of spanners and I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Then again, I'm probably wasting my breath because I actually know what I'm talking about.

This is why I am asking.
I just thought that it would be a simple swop, but seems from a lot of people its not.
I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE MY CAR GO 'PSH'. Had enough stick about that. Its NOT going to happen now!!!
Thanks though

[DanielSan]

300bhp/ton said:

DanielSan said:

ohtari said:

The way I see it, you'll be throwing away £278 for no gain anyway, so why not go the whole fking hog???


Seriously? lowering an A3 on 18" alloys, you mad? Do you enjoying the jarring agony of your vertebrae smashing together?

I believe you're in the process of getting it remapped, so why would you then make it all but useless on the road?

Save your money and leave it stock, the ride will be bad enough with those alloys anyway!

You are aware that a set of lowering springs are hardly going to lower it to a point of undrivable? It's a 30mm drop at best, and given that Audi offer 18's as an optional extra how is it going to ride terribly?? It will hardly be useless on the road.

30mm lower means 30mm less compression travel, so depending on how the spring, damper and bushes are may mean it'll hit the bump stops too easily, which is unpleasant and hinders ability.

A heavy spring will prevent this, but then it'll ride awful and likely bounce too much.

Lets not forget Audi aren't exactly known for their compliant rides either.

I think what I'll actually do is stick to the fact I've had personal experience with Eibach springs and know that they improved how the car handled.

Given that Litchfield imports recommend Eibach 25-30mm springs and a geometry setup on there latest upgrade kit for the BRZ/GT86 they must be wrong also even after hours of road and track
testing.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/gt86_brz_suspen...

Edited by DanielSan on Thursday 24th January 16:19

[zygalski]

I have Mk3 GSi Eibach springs on the Mk2 GTE & think they're great coupled with Bilstein shocks.
Slightly firmer than standard, 30mm lower & not harsh at all.
I think Apex have a slightly less good reputation, at least as far as old Astra's are concerned!

[300bhp/ton]

DanielSan said:

I think what I'll actually do is stick to the fact I've had personal experience with Eibach springs and know that they improved how the car handled.

Given that Litchfield imports recommend Eibach 25-30mm springs and a geometry setup on there latest upgrade kit for the BRZ/GT86 they must be wrong also even after hours of road and track
testing.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/gt86_brz_suspen...

Edited by DanielSan on Thursday 24th January 16:19

I'm not against modded cars - hell take a look at my profile it you like.

But claiming all Eibach springs are good purely on the basis they are Eibach is bull. I know as the ones they sell for 4th Gen Camaro's/Trans Am's are pretty crap unless it's a show car for posing.

Also a suspension system is entirely that a system of many parts.

For the record I lowered my smart Roadster (40mm iirc). Not Eibach I admit, but my point here is. While it rides fine and on smooth good roads it handles well it is rubbish on our current pot holed roads.

For example, I've toured all across mid Wales and down through the Brecon Beacons and Black Mountains. I've also toured in the Yorkshire Dales and North York Moors. The roads at these location have generally been brilliant and not a bother at all. However driving to work I go down some very rough country lanes that are badly maintained, on these roads it's bloody awful hitting the bump stops and generally being all over the show. So much so that I'm switching it back to standard springs as soon as I can afford it.

The moral here is, lowering springs will affect any car. However it may well depend on the roads you drive to really see if it has any negative affects.

[SuperchargedVR6]

rich68a said:

I am now going to lower my 2006 Audi A3 8P 2.0TFSI S-Line.
I am keeping the 18" RS alloys and have measured with the garage that 30mm drop will look good without being too low.

The quote between the 2 springs are as follows.
Appex lowering springs £278 all in
Eibach lowering springs £317.

I am doing this for looks and don't race about the streets but do not want a really harsh ride.
I know Appex are a middle of the range springs but are not cheap, nasty ones.

Is it really worth the extra £39??

I know its only £39 but no one would just throw away £39 on the floor for no gain.

Advice please

If you mean a 30mm reduction in the tyre to arch gap, you can't always guarantee a -30mm lowering spring will give you the stance you want. I've seen some -30mm springs take about 2 inches out of the arch gap!

I'd go for Eibach OE Sport if I were you. The spring rate isn't silly, so won't overload the standard dampers, and the lowering isn't silly either.

If you go too low you start mucking up roll centres and things, which = more understeer and other nasties.

[TonyRPH]

300bhp/ton said:

30mm lower means 30mm less compression travel, so depending on how the spring, damper and bushes are may mean it'll hit the bump stops too easily, which is unpleasant and hinders ability.

A heavy spring will prevent this, but then it'll ride awful and likely bounce too much.

Lets not forget Audi aren't exactly known for their compliant rides either.

Isn't this what progressive rate springs are for, rather than a 'heavy spring'?