Xenon Headlamps

[arfur sleep]

Looking to change current motor which has xenon (HID) headlamps which I like and find very useful.

Looking for suitable alternative motor and struggling to find something in price range that is suitable and comes equipped with xenon headlamps.

Talking to friend he suggested just buying a car without xenon and switching the lamps from halogen to xenon bulbs using some like this .

Hadn't thought of that because I was under the impression that all xenon units had to be self levelling to reduce dazzle etc so simply fitting some xenon bulbs into a standard unit would be illegal and inconsiderate to other roads users. It appears from a quick bit of research that these bulbs are completely legal and do offer similar output to standard xenon units.

Anyone got any experience / thoughts?

[Loplop]

arfur sleep said:

Looking to change current motor which has xenon (HID) headlamps which I like and find very useful.

Looking for suitable alternative motor and struggling to find something in price range that is suitable and comes equipped with xenon headlamps.

Talking to friend he suggested just buying a car without xenon and switching the lamps from halogen to xenon bulbs using some like this .

Hadn't thought of that because I was under the impression that all xenon units had to be self levelling to reduce dazzle etc so simply fitting some xenon bulbs into a standard unit would be illegal and inconsiderate to other roads users. It appears from a quick bit of research that these bulbs are completely legal and do offer similar output to standard xenon units.

Anyone got any experience / thoughts?

Xenons/HIDs require projector units instead of the usual reflective shrouds that halogen units have. If you put those bulbs in normal reflective housing you'll blind everyone and have various gestures thrown your way.

There are many options depending on what car you buy, you can get aftermarket projector units, you can get OEM+ upgrade kits or you can retrofit projector units and shrouds to your standard headlights.

[300bhp/ton]

Loplop said:

Xenons/HIDs require projector units instead of the usual reflective shrouds that halogen units have.

That's not actually true as there have been OEM HIDs in reflector housings and indeed different bulbs exist for HID reflector vs projector lamps (they have a metal strip on the bulb extra).

[ensignia]

What's your price range? I bet you can find a great car with OEM Xenons.

Don't be one of those c**ts with 12000k xenons in halogen headlight casings.

[okie592]

you can get a laguna with xenons for £800

[Cyder]

Loplop said:

Xenons/HIDs require projector units instead of the usual reflective shrouds that halogen units have. If you put those bulbs in normal reflective housing you'll blind everyone and have various gestures thrown your way.

There are many options depending on what car you buy, you can get aftermarket projector units, you can get OEM+ upgrade kits or you can retrofit projector units and shrouds to your standard headlights.

Sorry chap not true, I've got a Xenon lamp sitting on my desk which is in a reflector unit.

The ECE standard states that if the lamp output is greater than 2000 Candela then you must have self leveller and headlamp wash.

Whether you'd pass MOT's/get tugged by the law if you didn't fit these. I don't know.

[Monty Python]

Those aren't HIDSs - they're filament bulbs filled with xenon.

[Loplop]

300bhp/ton said:

Loplop said:

Xenons/HIDs require projector units instead of the usual reflective shrouds that halogen units have.

That's not actually true as there have been OEM HIDs in reflector housings and indeed different bulbs exist for HID reflector vs projector lamps (they have a metal strip on the bulb extra).

You mean the ones that offer no benefits over standard halogens other than 'pwetty colours'

[Cyder]

Monty Python said:

Those aren't HIDSs - they're filament bulbs filled with xenon.

They are definitely HID's.

They've got the ballast pack on the side of them and run at 20kV. I've never seen a filament bulb run at 20kV.

[300bhp/ton]

arfur sleep said:

Looking to change current motor which has xenon (HID) headlamps which I like and find very useful.

Looking for suitable alternative motor and struggling to find something in price range that is suitable and comes equipped with xenon headlamps.

Talking to friend he suggested just buying a car without xenon and switching the lamps from halogen to xenon bulbs using some like this .

Hadn't thought of that because I was under the impression that all xenon units had to be self levelling to reduce dazzle etc so simply fitting some xenon bulbs into a standard unit would be illegal and inconsiderate to other roads users. It appears from a quick bit of research that these bulbs are completely legal and do offer similar output to standard xenon units.

Anyone got any experience / thoughts?

What car and what budget?


Also consider that during the summer it gets light just after 4am and won't get dark until after 8pm. So how much night time driving do you actually do?


The whole HID thing is currently a complete grey area and while many bodies (DVLA/DfT and others) express "opinions" on what is/isn't legal, there is no clean cut regulation that directly defines what is or isn't allowed.

That said as most/many people don't really understand HIDs it's likely that there will be some sort of stupid legislation at some point that completely misses what it needs to and only really penalises sensible people.

On the flip side, a good set of halogens can still provide affective lighting. And remember it's not legal to run higher than 55w low beam halogen bulbs, but many people do. And I don't think a single person has been prosecuted. So likelihood if you run aftermarket HIDs is you'll get told to change them.


If you do plan on fitting HIDs make sure you go for 4100-4300k, this is the same that OEM's fit and is pretty close to daylight neutral white. If you go for higher K rating you actually lose lumens (less light output), you get a horrible colour cast which is more fatiguing on your eyes, poor colour rendition so it makes seeing some objects a lot harder and the higher the K the more haze and glare will be produced.

Also make sure you get the correct type of bulb for either projector or reflector housings. The focal point won't be perfect, but you should be able to make them have a clean cut off and not piss anyone off with.

[Monty Python]

Cyder said:

They are definitely HID's.

They've got the ballast pack on the side of them and run at 20kV. I've never seen a filament bulb run at 20kV.

Those Ring bulbs linked to in the OP are not HIDs - the description states "producing 100% Xenon gas and advanced filament technology to allow exceptional night driving performance" - note the use of "filament". Specification states 12V power.

HIDs - High Intensity Discharge - no filament involved.

(Besides, you'd never get a HID bulb for £27).

[littleredrooster]

Cyder said:

They are definitely HID's.

They've got the ballast pack on the side of them and run at 20kV. I've never seen a filament bulb run at 20kV.

The link in the OP is definitely NOT HIDs, just high-output bulbs. Look again.

[Cyder]

300bhp/ton said:

The whole HID thing is currently a complete grey area and while many bodies (DVLA/DfT and others) express "opinions" on what is/isn't legal, there is no clean cut regulation that directly defines what is or isn't allowed.

Not strictly true, ECE lighting regs are very clear on what is and isn't allowed.

What the DVLA/DfT can't seem to work out is whether cars fitted with the aftermarket lamps without wash/leveller should be able to pass MOT or be pulled by the fuzz it seems.

[David87]

Cyder said:

Sorry chap not true, I've got a Xenon lamp sitting on my desk which is in a reflector unit.

Yep, various cars have had OEM xenons in reflector lamps. From the top of my head: non-facelift R53 MINIs, Renault Laguna IIs, various Volvos, some old Mercs, possibly a Lexus or two.

[Cyder]

Monty Python said:

Cyder said:

They are definitely HID's.

They've got the ballast pack on the side of them and run at 20kV. I've never seen a filament bulb run at 20kV.

Those Ring bulbs linked to in the OP are not HIDs - the description states "producing 100% Xenon gas and advanced filament technology to allow exceptional night driving performance" - note the use of "filament". Specification states 12V power.

HIDs - High Intensity Discharge - no filament involved.

(Besides, you'd never get a HID bulb for £27).

Sorry, I thought you were replying to my post directly above yours where I said it is possible to have reflector HID's.

I agree with you about the link in the OP's post.

[300bhp/ton]

Loplop said:

300bhp/ton said:

Loplop said:

Xenons/HIDs require projector units instead of the usual reflective shrouds that halogen units have.

That's not actually true as there have been OEM HIDs in reflector housings and indeed different bulbs exist for HID reflector vs projector lamps (they have a metal strip on the bulb extra).

You mean the ones that offer no benefits over standard halogens other than 'pwetty colours'

Nope. Both Honda, Buick and others have sold HIDs in reflector lamps.

The standard 2D HID bulb has a sister bulb called a 2DR which has an additional metal strip, the 'R' denotes use in reflector lamps. Phillips and others make these bulbs.

[arfur sleep]

thanks for the replies, lot of people echoing my thoughts of just not doing it or at least getting some OEM units and switching the whole thing over.

I know the lamps I mentioned in the OP aren't HID - they were the example my friend gave me.

Regarding a new car - believe me i've looked in PH classifieds, Autotrader, eBay at vehicles and there's a limited choice local to me that offers what I need in terms of practicality, size, economy with xenons

It's looking like a diesel Honda Civic at the moment...bit of change from the Focus ST

[300bhp/ton]

Cyder said:

300bhp/ton said:

The whole HID thing is currently a complete grey area and while many bodies (DVLA/DfT and others) express "opinions" on what is/isn't legal, there is no clean cut regulation that directly defines what is or isn't allowed.

Not strictly true, ECE lighting regs are very clear on what is and isn't allowed.

What the DVLA/DfT can't seem to work out is whether cars fitted with the aftermarket lamps without wash/leveller should be able to pass MOT or be pulled by the fuzz it seems.

That's what I said, it's not clean cut, nobody really knows. At best as there is no specific regulation and no case law HIDs are not illegal, but this doesn't mean they are legal either. Until there is either case law or an explicit regulation for the UK it will likely remain a grey area.

Personally I have zero issues with aftermarket HIDs so long as they are right type of bulb and the right K rating. Self levelling and washers are mostly pointless in reality, but sadly is the key thing any legislation is likely to grasp too

[Krikkit]

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I have zero issues with aftermarket HIDs so long as they are right type of bulb and the right K rating. Self levelling and washers are mostly pointless in reality, but sadly is the key thing any legislation is likely to grasp too

As long as it creates a decent beam pattern I couldn't care less. Problem is there's quite a few OE lights that I find incredibly bright and dazzling, mostly on Germanic 4x4's.

[Howard-]

Monty Python said:

(Besides, you'd never get a HID bulb for £27).

Philips D2S bulbs are around £30 each. I suspect you mean you won't get a pair of HID bulbs for £30, which is correct.




OP, if the car you want had HIDs as an option but you don't want to hold out to find one with that option fitted, then you'll probably be able to buy a second hand set of headlamp units and associated ballasts and whatnot. That's what I did with my Mondeo.

You can get HID bulbs which fit into traditional reflector housings which have a metal housing covering half of the bulb so as not to aim the beam too high. These are how OEM HIDs are fitted in conventional reflector lenses (look at an older Nisssan Quashquai (I think) or a Honda Accord Type-R or Volvo XC90 for examples) where projector lenses aren't used. Projectors are better though.

Edited by Howard- on Friday 25th January 14:01

Edited by Howard- on Friday 25th January 14:03