For those who've moved from Plasma to LED-LCD...
Discussion
Just wondering what your thoughts are really, any regrets afterwards or reservations before?
I'm looking to replace a GT30 panasonic plasma which has gone bang after 2 years, and tempting as the GT50 is I'm quite taken by the Samsung LED-LCD range, particularly the 55" UE55ES6900.
I'm acutely aware of the effect shop lighting can have in making the plasmas seem a bit dull and the LEDs seem super vivid, so my only real reservations are that it might be a bit too bright. Otherwise, I have to say I was pretty impressed - being a fan of the deep blacks my Viera was capable of I was also under the impression that LED tv's may show them a bit more washed out, but I'm now thinking that issue may perhaps be overstated (to my eye at least they looked good).
Also, from what I could tell the motion blur problems seem pretty much a non-issue these days? I saw about 10 minutes of a football game on one yesterday (albeit on a crappy freeview HD input source) and it looked pretty sharp, but I'm wondering if it's something that rears it's head when games consoles are used or during other sports broadcasts?
Just curious to see if the general opinion is positive before I trot off to richer sounds - superbowl beckons so I'll be buying in the next couple of days
I'm looking to replace a GT30 panasonic plasma which has gone bang after 2 years, and tempting as the GT50 is I'm quite taken by the Samsung LED-LCD range, particularly the 55" UE55ES6900.
I'm acutely aware of the effect shop lighting can have in making the plasmas seem a bit dull and the LEDs seem super vivid, so my only real reservations are that it might be a bit too bright. Otherwise, I have to say I was pretty impressed - being a fan of the deep blacks my Viera was capable of I was also under the impression that LED tv's may show them a bit more washed out, but I'm now thinking that issue may perhaps be overstated (to my eye at least they looked good).
Also, from what I could tell the motion blur problems seem pretty much a non-issue these days? I saw about 10 minutes of a football game on one yesterday (albeit on a crappy freeview HD input source) and it looked pretty sharp, but I'm wondering if it's something that rears it's head when games consoles are used or during other sports broadcasts?
Just curious to see if the general opinion is positive before I trot off to richer sounds - superbowl beckons so I'll be buying in the next couple of days
My friend has the Samsung led/LCD and it is amazing, hard to believe there is a better picture out there.
My only concern with LCD is reliability. Based purely on personal experience plasma screens have a very good life span, my old Hitachi 1024x1024 plasma 42" which I gave to my mother in law is still running perfectly at nine years old !
My 50" Samsung plasma is six years old and is still working great (had to fix the power board last year).
Where as a I know of a few Lcds (friends and family) that have failed after just over a year.
I may be wrong about plasma being more reliable but I trust the technology based on personal experience
I went frfom an older panny plasma to a Sony LCD W-series and now on a Samsung ES8000. Never looked back in all honesty.
The reason LCDs take alot of stick is they are very susceptible to bad setup. If you set up too bright, then the bleed is terrible. Too vivid and it looks like a fake picture. Get it right though and they are superb. Most of my viewing is via a PC and I also have lots of light in my room, so I would never go back to a plasma.
The next upgrade will no doubt be an OLED, but that is 2 or 3 years away Id say. I have good friends who have the VT50 Panny, I still wouldnt swap my Samsung for it. But that debate is as old as the hills.
The only weekness on my set would be the 3D, the ghosting can be quite bad, but I rarely watch 3D, so meh.
LAstly the fast moving images are absolutely fine. I watch alot of sport, and even on something like tennis, you can see the ball flying through the air, no problems. Unless of course you put on those stupid effects motion effects on. Again this is all about bad setup!
The reason LCDs take alot of stick is they are very susceptible to bad setup. If you set up too bright, then the bleed is terrible. Too vivid and it looks like a fake picture. Get it right though and they are superb. Most of my viewing is via a PC and I also have lots of light in my room, so I would never go back to a plasma.
The next upgrade will no doubt be an OLED, but that is 2 or 3 years away Id say. I have good friends who have the VT50 Panny, I still wouldnt swap my Samsung for it. But that debate is as old as the hills.
The only weekness on my set would be the 3D, the ghosting can be quite bad, but I rarely watch 3D, so meh.
LAstly the fast moving images are absolutely fine. I watch alot of sport, and even on something like tennis, you can see the ball flying through the air, no problems. Unless of course you put on those stupid effects motion effects on. Again this is all about bad setup!
I only had limited use of a plasma on a borrow while my friend sold up and went abroad for a few months that was Panasonic I dunno the model number but it wasn't cheap when he bought it the quality was very good. Circumstances meant that when he returned and after living at mine for abit got his new house I had to buy a TV I originally went for a 37" Samsung but it had a defect in the speaker so after 2 days replaced it with an LED Samsung 3D 40" absolutely no issues with it picture wise though adjusting it was important. Sound wise though it's a bit thin and I keep meaning to get a soundbar for it. Picture wise really really good no real problems with bluring etc
One thing though I don't have sky but do have the Samsung freesat box instead and the pictures from that are always sharper than the freeview ones. I believe that has been mentioned by other people in other posts on subjects.
Oh if anyone has the BOSE TV mate thing they are advertising I would be really grateful for any views on that as design wise that would fit in better than a soundbar due to size
One thing though I don't have sky but do have the Samsung freesat box instead and the pictures from that are always sharper than the freeview ones. I believe that has been mentioned by other people in other posts on subjects.
Oh if anyone has the BOSE TV mate thing they are advertising I would be really grateful for any views on that as design wise that would fit in better than a soundbar due to size
I've had my 55inch Samsung D8000 for over a year now and cannot fault it. It has a very dynamic picture which some people may not like but for me it brings everything to life. Previously I had a 50 inch pany top of the range VT model which was still good in a Plasma way. However you could heat up the whole house with it ;-) The D8000 sound is surprisingly good from such a slim set. Still meaning to get a sound bar too :-)
Edited by KENZ on Monday 28th January 20:47
Stu R said:
Also, from what I could tell the motion blur problems seem pretty much a non-issue these days? I saw about 10 minutes of a football game on one yesterday (albeit on a crappy freeview HD input source) and it looked pretty sharp, but I'm wondering if it's something that rears it's head when games consoles are used or during other sports broadcasts?
I bought a decent spec 46" LCD Panasonic with LED back lighting recently. I find the motion blur quite noticable, mainly when there is a panning shot, doesn't even need to be a fast pan, enven slow panning and it is clearly noticable. It's much more bareable on HD mind. I've never had a plasma but can't help wondering if that kind of defect wouldn't be an issue. This feature is particularly noticable when credits are scrolling at the end of a film or programme. If the text font size is small the text can be practically illegible. I keep meaning to compare a few plasmas in the shops as expect them to be significantly sharper. I didn't notice this defect when on display in the shop, but once you've lived with something for a few weeks you start to see the flaws. I have started to regret buying LCD. I did so mainly as I use the TV as a computer monitor and was worried about screen burn in plasma. If I had the choice again I would seriously consider a plasma.
Another area said to be not so good for LCDs is the black levels. Again I really notice this now with my TV. You can barely make out any detail in dark scenes. And on the rare occasion that I play computer games I have found that I often need to turn the brightness and contrast up to be even be able to make out what is going on in some games - I suspect this wouldn't be an issue on a plasma.
..then there's the light bleeding in from the edge lights too. Had to return the first set, and the replacement set sent was nearly as bad.
I really think most people are beguiled by these new "LED" TVs - presuming they must be better 'cos it's LED not LCD? So I would compare carefully before leaving your plasma behind.
Thanks folks, interesting to hear the feedback. Decorating has hitherto put paid to getting something sorted but hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to pop through to Richer Sounds.
Couple of points I probably should have mentioned in the OP;
- not interested in Smart TV type stuff unless it happens to be excellent - I suspect the best they get is still shonky user interfaces so it's probably not of interest - Plus I've got Apple TV, Xbox, Sky and a MBP connected up so not short of better options in that respect for netflix, youtube et al. Interesting to hear Panasonics is good these days, the old Vieracast on my GT30 was almost as bad as a 10 year old archos
- Sound quality doesn't matter, it'll be hooked up to my existing audio setup which is decent.
- If I get an LED I'm 99% certain it'll have to be a local dimming one - AIUI the higher end Samsungs all are so hopefully that should negate a lot of the lighting problems LED lit LCDs are prone to?
- Finally, it's going in a east facing conservatory which doesn't have blinds or curtains and is impossibly bright at times, but I only really watch TV first thing in the morning and in the evenings so it's not a big deal, always managed with the plasma.
Thanks again - some really useful replies
Couple of points I probably should have mentioned in the OP;
- not interested in Smart TV type stuff unless it happens to be excellent - I suspect the best they get is still shonky user interfaces so it's probably not of interest - Plus I've got Apple TV, Xbox, Sky and a MBP connected up so not short of better options in that respect for netflix, youtube et al. Interesting to hear Panasonics is good these days, the old Vieracast on my GT30 was almost as bad as a 10 year old archos
- Sound quality doesn't matter, it'll be hooked up to my existing audio setup which is decent.
- If I get an LED I'm 99% certain it'll have to be a local dimming one - AIUI the higher end Samsungs all are so hopefully that should negate a lot of the lighting problems LED lit LCDs are prone to?
- Finally, it's going in a east facing conservatory which doesn't have blinds or curtains and is impossibly bright at times, but I only really watch TV first thing in the morning and in the evenings so it's not a big deal, always managed with the plasma.
Thanks again - some really useful replies
Teetertank said:
Another area said to be not so good for LCDs is the black levels. Again I really notice this now with my TV. You can barely make out any detail in dark scenes. And on the rare occasion that I play computer games I have found that I often need to turn the brightness and contrast up to be even be able to make out what is going on in some games - I suspect this wouldn't be an issue on a plasma.
As I imagine you are stuck with this TV now, try seeing if there is a 'gamma' control in any of the menus: A lower gamma will tend to make shadow detail more obvious (at the expense of blowing out brighter scenes) also setting the brightness control correctly so that it isn't crushing black: Use something like the (free) AVS HD709 disc and adjust in the basic patterns so that you can just see the 17 bar flashing. Ideally you could have a gamma setting that is low for dark areas and higher in brighter areas, but usually an external video processor would be needed for this, so just try different gamma settings to see if there is one that suits (or save alternative settings in the different picture modes if this is possible).Turn off any 'contrast enhance' or similar 'advanced features' too since they often crush black (and white for that matter) and may also improve motion effects too. Adjust the back light to suit the viewing environment, ie turn it down unless you are watching it in a conservatory.
This probably won't make it perfect, but might go some way to making it more enjoyable to watch if you are stuck with it.
Thanks OldSkool,
I have tried playing with the settings, but admittedly haven't spent a lot of time fime tuning but did find the settings rather coarse. Like the sound of that calibration disc - I just googled it, seems I can download it. At present I calibrated the TV to the picture set-up calibration screen from the computer. Will soon be departing for holiday but will investigate on my return. Thanks again for the tips.
I have tried playing with the settings, but admittedly haven't spent a lot of time fime tuning but did find the settings rather coarse. Like the sound of that calibration disc - I just googled it, seems I can download it. At present I calibrated the TV to the picture set-up calibration screen from the computer. Will soon be departing for holiday but will investigate on my return. Thanks again for the tips.
It occured to me that a games console will require different settings for brightness (and probably contrast too) since the HDMI range is usually 0-255 for games compared to 16-235 for BluRay players. My son's XBox is connected to the kitchen TV and I had to lower the brightness compared to the BluRay setting otherwise blacks looked grey. No matter since we don't watch anything other than the internal tuner (has it's own settings) or his XBox, but something to bare in mind if using the TV with a mixture of HDMI sources.
Enjoy your holiday.
Enjoy your holiday.
Toffer said:
If you intend to use the SMART TV internet based features on a new LCD/LED TV, I suggest that the Panasonic Viera system accesses internet streamed programming quicker and easier than Samsung.
Not sure how it compares to the Samsung but my father in-laws txl42e5b can play pretty much any file I put on a USB stick, even 6gb MKVs with the stick formatted in NTFS.OldSkoolRS said:
Teetertank said:
Another area said to be not so good for LCDs is the black levels. Again I really notice this now with my TV. You can barely make out any detail in dark scenes. And on the rare occasion that I play computer games I have found that I often need to turn the brightness and contrast up to be even be able to make out what is going on in some games - I suspect this wouldn't be an issue on a plasma.
As I imagine you are stuck with this TV now, try seeing if there is a 'gamma' control in any of the menus: A lower gamma will tend to make shadow detail more obvious (at the expense of blowing out brighter scenes) also setting the brightness control correctly so that it isn't crushing black: Use something like the (free) AVS HD709 disc and adjust in the basic patterns so that you can just see the 17 bar flashing. Ideally you could have a gamma setting that is low for dark areas and higher in brighter areas, but usually an external video processor would be needed for this, so just try different gamma settings to see if there is one that suits (or save alternative settings in the different picture modes if this is possible).Turn off any 'contrast enhance' or similar 'advanced features' too since they often crush black (and white for that matter) and may also improve motion effects too. Adjust the back light to suit the viewing environment, ie turn it down unless you are watching it in a conservatory.
This probably won't make it perfect, but might go some way to making it more enjoyable to watch if you are stuck with it.
There was a downloadable DVD somewhere (a PAL version for us UK viewers) but I can't find it now. However, there are some 'hidden' test patterns on certain discs, those with THX in the menu. Otherwise look on Amazon for 'Digital video essentials' as it will be cheap enough these days.
This only sets up the display's external inputs, but typically all you can do is copy across the settings to the internal tuner's settings (if your display allows separate settings for different inputs/internal tuner).
This only sets up the display's external inputs, but typically all you can do is copy across the settings to the internal tuner's settings (if your display allows separate settings for different inputs/internal tuner).
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