V70N '98 'Drinking' coolant or leaking coolant?

[lightthefuse]

Greetings all,

Wifey reports back today that the coolant light is on sporadically on our V70 ('98, 2.5SE 10v).

No biggie on previous occasions, just that the coolant needs topping up. I've had to do it thrice this year - the first after a heavy autobahn/motorway session from Sweden to the UK, on the hottest days of the year, notice when I lift the bonnet that the coolant is low. Not surprised. The second with the coolant light coming on a few weeks ago, have a look, fair enough it's low, coolant topped up with 50/50 antifreeze/water. Popped the bonnet again a week or so ago and it was low again (no light in the dash mind) but not below the min line. Top up with what's left of what I've previously mixed which takes it nicely to max.

I think it's drinking coolant a bit too liberally for my liking. My limited knowledge of these systems leads me to believe the theory is it's a closed system and whilst a little bit should be used from time to time, it shouldn't drink itself dry. I'll check the car tomorrow, but I'm counting on it being below minimum again.

Question is, should I be looking for a potential leak? If so, where are the usual suspects on a B5252 S2?

Second question, is trouble ahead if it's not a leak? Where's all that coolant going?

Grateful for any advice/answers given.

EDIT: just feel the need to mention the engine has never cooked at any point.

[Raize]

Does it make white smoke when it's warm? Coolant either leaks out, or goes into the cylinders via headgasket problems and is "burned". You could check the oil for emulsification too.

[lightthefuse]

Raize said:

Does it make white smoke when it's warm? Coolant either leaks out, or goes into the cylinders via headgasket problems and is "burned". You could check the oil for emulsification too.

Will take a closer look, but no white smoke out of the exhaust whenever I've driven it. Will make a point of checking the oil as well, I've seen how emulsification looks with a car with head gasket problems so know what to look for there.

[paintman]

Have the coolant tested for the presence of combustion gase - a simple sniffer test.
Also have the system pressure tested.

[Raize]

lightthefuse said:

Raize said:

Does it make white smoke when it's warm? Coolant either leaks out, or goes into the cylinders via headgasket problems and is "burned". You could check the oil for emulsification too.

Will take a closer look, but no white smoke out of the exhaust whenever I've driven it. Will make a point of checking the oil as well, I've seen how emulsification looks with a car with head gasket problems so know what to look for there.

You can take advantage of the current cold weather by running it until it's warm then stopping somewhere outside with the bonnet open. If there's a leak, you'll see vapor rising.

[noell35]

mine did that. check the bottom of the radiator, apparently they are very exposed and prone to corrosion. At least that's what the guy who fitted my new one said! (volvo specialist)

[6fire]

Feel the carpets in the front footwells. It's not unknown to have heater matrix leaks in the V70 which will give you the symptoms you describe.

[kev b]

You don't want to be gambling with coolant loss, take it to a garage and have it pressure tested. Have them check the cap as well as the rubber inside can harden. If nothing shows up then do a sniffer test in case the headgasket is leaking.

If it is leaking then try some K Seal, I have had amazing results with it even though I am highly suspicious about "miracle" products this stuff really works.

[williredale]

6fire said:

Feel the carpets in the front footwells. It's not unknown to have heater matrix leaks in the V70 which will give you the symptoms you describe.

I have a 2000 C70 which suffered from a leaking heater matrix and I had to keep topping up the coolant. Check the passenger footwell (assuming RHD). My coolant ended up underneath the carpet and I couldn't feel it on the carpet but it was sopping wet when I lifted the carpets. Other tell tales were the windscreen steaming up and not clearing very quickly and a slight sweet smell of antifreeze in the cabin.

[lightthefuse]

kev b said:

You don't want to be gambling with coolant loss, take it to a garage and have it pressure tested. Have them check the cap as well as the rubber inside can harden. If nothing shows up then do a sniffer test in case the headgasket is leaking.

If it is leaking then try some K Seal, I have had amazing results with it even though I am highly suspicious about "miracle" products this stuff really works.

Exactly. The car won't be going anywhere until I've got a handle on it. What would be the dis/advantages of doing the sniffer test first? The reason being that I can pick up a sniffer test kit for around £50 here whilst I'd be looking at a one-er just looking at the front door of even the mankiest back street garage over here.

Am I thinking along the right lines of order of test here when I go to the car tomorrow? The main reason for the ordering is expense - it's getting on for sheddiness but been cosseted in our ownership, on the other hand if the head gasket's gone it will be a one-way ticket to the scrapper:

Check floor for heater matrix issue - if going, replacement part costs between £30-50 that I can work out. Is it a bugger to get to if the car's lifted?
Check radiator for corrosion - if corroded, replacement radiator from my usual place is about £150.
Sniffer test - £50
Compression test/fault find at garage - loadsamoney.

[lightthefuse]

williredale said:

Check the passenger footwell (assuming RHD).

It's LHD - Swedish car (EDIT: oops, s'pose all Volvos are - apart from the ones built in Gent). Assume check drivers' side instead.

[williredale]

lightthefuse said:

It's LHD - Swedish car (EDIT: oops, s'pose all Volvos are - apart from the ones built in Gent). Assume check drivers' side instead.

Should have checked your profile! My drivers side was pretty dry but the passenger side was soaked. The matrix is centrally mounted but the pipes are routed to the passenger side and it was down these that a lot of it leaked although it was wasn't from the pipes themselves.

I only found that after I worked out what the problem was and had part stripped the footwells. The signs for me where the unexplained loss of coolant and the screen being steamed up and not clearing properly.

[kev b]

I meant a coolant system pressure test not a cylinder compression test, this shouldn't take more than half an hour. If you are trying to save money then:

1) get engine fully warm, lift bonnet (engine running) and check for steam, stains at pipe joins and coolant smell.

2)check for damp under carpet and coolant smell inside ie heater matrix leak.

3)Check that the radiator fan comes on when left idling for a while.

4) check around filler cap for leaking, the cap is also a pressure relief valve.

5)when cold!! remove filler cap and flip the rubber washer over, they get hard and a ridge forms causing a slight leak.

6) buy a new cap £10 and a bottle of K seal <£20, this will sort most of your faults and if it doesn't then you've done no harm and only spent £30.

ETA When did it last have a waterpump fitted?

Edited by kev b on Sunday 27th January 23:38

[lightthefuse]

kev b said:

ETA When did it last have a waterpump fitted?

Last year along with a new cambelt and main service.

[kev b]

That's the waterpump eliminated then, which is very good news.

[SuperchargedVR6]

kev b said:

If it is leaking then try some K Seal, I have had amazing results with it even though I am highly suspicious about "miracle" products this stuff really works.

Haha, good old K-Seal. The K series Rover owner's best friend! I wonder if sealing up Rover's crappy head gasket design is where it got it's name from?

Anyway, it is good (the RAC carry it in their vans) but it can sometimes affect the heater matrix. i.e. not get very hot.

A leak that slow would leave tell-tale dried coolant staining on the engine block, or around the part it's leaking from. The OP needs to look around the motor more thoroughly. If no drips on cardboard over night and no external signs of leaking at all, then it's got to be drinking it. Probably a tiny split on the intake side, but not enough to cause running issues or steam from the tailpipe.

[Raize]

lightthefuse said:

on the other hand if the head gasket's gone it will be a one-way ticket to the scrapper

As long as the head or block isn't warped that can be DIY'd pretty cheaply and easily. If it turns out to be HGF and it's getting scrapped anyway you might as well pull the head and check.

[lightthefuse]

Thanks for everybody's replies. Had a thorough check-over of it today and decided to check for HGF anyway to boot just to make completely sure.

Oil's fine, a little dirty but due an oil and filter change soon anyway.
Radiator's fine - no corrosion.
Heater matrix is fine as well - took out the carpet and dry in the footwells.
Warmed the car up and booted it - no white smoke, as thought from before.
Did the sniffer test - came back okay, detection fluid stayed blue when tested.
Checked the lid, container and lines and they're all fine.
Have re-filled coolant, checked the lid (on the hard side but a tight enough seal, if the coolant drops again I'll replace) screwed the lid TIGHTLY and driven it warm for about 20-30 minutes. Coolant stayed at same level.

Wondering if I screwed it back too loosely last week and coolant has evaporated through the top when the wife has driven it. Bit of an expense with the sniffer kit but thought it worth it since I can test other cars and treat it as an addition to my toolbox.

I'll keep an eye on it for the moment, and keep my fingers crossed. At least I think I've ruled out head gasket problems.

EDIT: should read replies properly...

SuperchargedVR6 said:

A leak that slow would leave tell-tale dried coolant staining on the engine block, or around the part it's leaking from. The OP needs to look around the motor more thoroughly. If no drips on cardboard over night and no external signs of leaking at all, then it's got to be drinking it. Probably a tiny split on the intake side, but not enough to cause running issues or steam from the tailpipe.

Will try with the cardboard, no stains on the block that I can think of, but you never know.

Edited by lightthefuse on Monday 28th January 20:24