Using solar power to continually heat coolant
Discussion
Hiya,
Just had a bit of a thought- had any manufacturer ever used solar panels, say in the roof or inside rear screen, to provide a continuous amount of heat to the coolant in an engine? I know the trickle feed from solar would not be that great bit surely keeping it at a couple of degrees, or even just adding a bit of assistance to the heat from the block, would help get engines up to optimum operating temp a bit quicker and help reduce engine wear?
I know it would be expensive and would have to have an override to allow servicing etc but can the PH masses pick any other holes in the idea?
Closest relative to this idea I can think of is some audis have the solar panel in the sunroof that can be used to drive the fans in a vehicle to keep them ventilated in hit weather.
Mosp
Just had a bit of a thought- had any manufacturer ever used solar panels, say in the roof or inside rear screen, to provide a continuous amount of heat to the coolant in an engine? I know the trickle feed from solar would not be that great bit surely keeping it at a couple of degrees, or even just adding a bit of assistance to the heat from the block, would help get engines up to optimum operating temp a bit quicker and help reduce engine wear?
I know it would be expensive and would have to have an override to allow servicing etc but can the PH masses pick any other holes in the idea?
Closest relative to this idea I can think of is some audis have the solar panel in the sunroof that can be used to drive the fans in a vehicle to keep them ventilated in hit weather.
Mosp
Biggest hole is that it really wouldn't be worth doing.
Any gains you get on mpg/emissions are going to be lost by the increase in weight of the car and it gets coldest at night (solar doesn't work so well then).
With engines doing 200k+ I don't see there being much need for better wear rates.
Any gains you get on mpg/emissions are going to be lost by the increase in weight of the car and it gets coldest at night (solar doesn't work so well then).
With engines doing 200k+ I don't see there being much need for better wear rates.
Scuffers said:
OK, consider this...
if you covered the roof of your typical car with the best commercially available cells, just how much power do you think you would get?
Now, how many Kw do you think it takes to keep a non-running engine at say 50C
Some background reading for OP. http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/11/a-sola...if you covered the roof of your typical car with the best commercially available cells, just how much power do you think you would get?
Now, how many Kw do you think it takes to keep a non-running engine at say 50C
EddieFelson said:
Not sure if its really worth warming the coolant - the oil would be better?
I think it would, but I'm not an engineer. How would a regular production engine cope with some of the fluids being warm and others cold, in terms of expansion and so on?Thinking about the extreme example of a -40C start (say, Siberia) with oil at, say, 100C entering the engine, but with coolant at -40C and the block/pistons etc at -40C, I wonder what sort of effect it would have.
C
The solar panels on car roofs develop electricity, so you'd need an electric heater connected to said cells, then a pump to circulate the coolant through the heater, all of which would add weight and cost.
It's be simpler just to have flaps that seal off the engine bay when you stop so the heat is contained within.
It's be simpler just to have flaps that seal off the engine bay when you stop so the heat is contained within.
There is a more fundamental problem with this idea.
Places that need engine pre-heating tend to be near the poles and they tend to need the heat most in the winter due to the short days and weak sunlight
Solar power tends to be most useless in short days and weak sunlight.
However solar powered ventilation is a winner and can be retro fitted
Places that need engine pre-heating tend to be near the poles and they tend to need the heat most in the winter due to the short days and weak sunlight
Solar power tends to be most useless in short days and weak sunlight.
However solar powered ventilation is a winner and can be retro fitted
thinfourth2 said:
However solar powered ventilation is a winner and can be retro fitted
how so?if you have a car with a plain white roof, compared to one with solar panels on it, the solar one will get a shed load hotter, so you then need to find a way to insulate this from the car itself.
Scuffers said:
thinfourth2 said:
However solar powered ventilation is a winner and can be retro fitted
how so?if you have a car with a plain white roof, compared to one with solar panels on it, the solar one will get a shed load hotter, so you then need to find a way to insulate this from the car itself.
An interesting question
Would a car roof covered in solar panel driving a fan perform better then a plain white roof.
I'd suspect due to thermal heating through the car windows the solar roof would be better but thats based purely on guesswork
Scuffers said:
solar panels at best are ~20% efficient (outside of stupid money NASA ones)
These presumably fall into the "supid money NASA ones" category -- 33.5%: http://www.gizmag.com/amonix-solar-module-efficien...JonnyVTEC said:
Its not infra red light as you are infering anyway...
The Nissan Leaf and Prius have it, ideal way to reduce solar heatsoak on hot days to keep the cabin more comfortable. To drive the cabin fan its no where the size of the roof either.
There's a big difference between slowly driving a small fan and heating a large amount of fluid/metal to above-ambient temperatures.The Nissan Leaf and Prius have it, ideal way to reduce solar heatsoak on hot days to keep the cabin more comfortable. To drive the cabin fan its no where the size of the roof either.
doogz said:
On demand water pump:
"On-demand water pump.
Driven by a friction gear, the water pump is not activated until the engine has reached its normal operating temperature, thus enabling the engine to warm up more quickly. This serves both to reduce fuel consumption and improve emissions at the same time."
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/12/14/new_mini_38...
Most water pumps (clutched or electric) do that in engines."On-demand water pump.
Driven by a friction gear, the water pump is not activated until the engine has reached its normal operating temperature, thus enabling the engine to warm up more quickly. This serves both to reduce fuel consumption and improve emissions at the same time."
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/12/14/new_mini_38...
OP, the order of magnitude between the engine heating the coolant (anywhere between 30-100kW) or a solar cell heater providing less than 1kW means the panel is not going to make any difference.
We have many ways of heating the engines faster - closed bypasses, better designed thermostats and using the engine oil cooler as a heater.
My 1956 car has an engine block heater that's permanently fitted and simply plugs into the mains via a flexible cable.
These were an aftermarket fitment that replace one of the core plugs. I ocassionally use it if it's going to be a particularly cold night.
Older cars (back to the 1930's at least) often had radiator blinds or moveable shutters that shut off the air flow until the car was up to temperature, so the BMW idea is hardly new.
These were an aftermarket fitment that replace one of the core plugs. I ocassionally use it if it's going to be a particularly cold night.
Older cars (back to the 1930's at least) often had radiator blinds or moveable shutters that shut off the air flow until the car was up to temperature, so the BMW idea is hardly new.
mph said:
My 1956 car has an engine block heater that's permanently fitted and simply plugs into the mains via a flexible cable.
These were an aftermarket fitment that replace one of the core plugs. I ocassionally use it if it's going to be a particularly cold night.
Older cars (back to the 1930's at least) often had radiator blinds or moveable shutters that shut off the air flow until the car was up to temperature, so the BMW idea is hardly new.
That would have been before wax thermostats, perhaps?These were an aftermarket fitment that replace one of the core plugs. I ocassionally use it if it's going to be a particularly cold night.
Older cars (back to the 1930's at least) often had radiator blinds or moveable shutters that shut off the air flow until the car was up to temperature, so the BMW idea is hardly new.
The AGS (active grille shutters) are not primarily for cooling purposes, but to reduce drag.
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