Advice on upgrading car (hot hatch)
Discussion
I'm hoping to gain a collective of advice to settle on a decision
I'm going to be upgrading my car in the next 2 months,
And I want to upgrade to something a bigger, better and faster (Currently in a 05 1.2 Clio)
My Budget is £5000
I'm really drawn to the Facelift EP3, but I've heard very mixed reviews on it, mainly taking into question the handling and power delivery
On paper an Astra VXR is pretty much the same, and although I like how it looks, I not a big fan of the interior.
And I've heard the leon is a bit numb and detatched
Any recommendation on alternative cars, and real experience reviews on the EP3 and VXR would be greatly appreciated
Bonus Info:
I've had the 1.2 for many years, and I've checked out insurance and on the EP3 it's sub £1000
My Daily commute to work is around 25miles round trip, with around 20 of them on the motorway,
I start work early so I am not often caught in traffic
Live in Gloucestershire, plenty of back roads and forest roads to work it on (legally of course)
Budget = £5000
Many Thanks
I'm going to be upgrading my car in the next 2 months,
And I want to upgrade to something a bigger, better and faster (Currently in a 05 1.2 Clio)
My Budget is £5000
I'm really drawn to the Facelift EP3, but I've heard very mixed reviews on it, mainly taking into question the handling and power delivery
On paper an Astra VXR is pretty much the same, and although I like how it looks, I not a big fan of the interior.
And I've heard the leon is a bit numb and detatched
Any recommendation on alternative cars, and real experience reviews on the EP3 and VXR would be greatly appreciated
Bonus Info:
I've had the 1.2 for many years, and I've checked out insurance and on the EP3 it's sub £1000
My Daily commute to work is around 25miles round trip, with around 20 of them on the motorway,
I start work early so I am not often caught in traffic
Live in Gloucestershire, plenty of back roads and forest roads to work it on (legally of course)
Budget = £5000
Many Thanks
GlosAC said:
I'm hoping to gain a collective of advice to settle on a decision
I'm really drawn to the Facelift EP3, but I've heard very mixed reviews on it, mainly taking into question the handling and power delivery
The handling is renowned for being rather good. I guess the light weight will do that. The steering feel is more often criticised, but the car is known for being an agile thing, if not the last word in tactile feedback (not that anything else from that generation of hot hatches really is either). As for the power delivery, it is as addictive and delicious as you could wish for. Those who criticise it are usually sloppy diesel drivers, used to being able to smoke around in top gear letting 'bagz of torgue' and a turbo do the hard work for them. If you enjoy the tactile sensation of driving and controlling a car then exploiting the upper reaches of a VTEC screamer is something you will love.I'm really drawn to the Facelift EP3, but I've heard very mixed reviews on it, mainly taking into question the handling and power delivery
Also, might as well enjoy a good N/A engine now, whilst they are still around.
Similarly for the Astra VXR, a friend of mine has had one of these for a few years now. Are down to £5000 yet? His cost over twice that a couple of years ago. Nice enough looking thing from the outside in Arden Blue, but the dreadful interior really put me off. It was like sitting in one of the diesel Astras I drive at work. The handling wasn't as bad as is made out (nor was the torque steer) but that generation of Astra was never anything special to begin with in terms of the chassis so don't expect it to handle as well as say, the equivalent Honda Civic. Once the 'big bang' of the turbo was shown off, you'd seen most of what the car had to offer.
I actually much preferred the mk1 Leon Cupra R 225. With a little bit of upgrading and tweaking, they can be made stupidly fast, yet looked and felt better than the Astra. Not the last word in hot hatch joy either, but definitely a car I liked a lot. I still remember my mate turning up to my house in one. I can't remember what I was driving at the time, but the Leon made my car look prehistoric and it was the fastest car I had been in for some time. It was really bloody fast.
I actually much preferred the mk1 Leon Cupra R 225. With a little bit of upgrading and tweaking, they can be made stupidly fast, yet looked and felt better than the Astra. Not the last word in hot hatch joy either, but definitely a car I liked a lot. I still remember my mate turning up to my house in one. I can't remember what I was driving at the time, but the Leon made my car look prehistoric and it was the fastest car I had been in for some time. It was really bloody fast.
Nemo Sum said:
rajkohli81 said:
1. 130i M Sport hatch...slightly quicker than VXR, same Ins grp and economy..but RWD, much sweeter handling and sweet 6
2. R56 Cooper S + ECU upgrade
3. Focus ST
Apart from the Focus you can get the other 2 for 5 grand?2. R56 Cooper S + ECU upgrade
3. Focus ST
£5k in reddies will catch you a 2007 R56 Cooper S
They'll both be worth substantially more than EP3/VXR come trade in and have nicer interiors, which I see is a criteria for OP
Do not buy an R56 Cooper S unless you have a desire to piss money up the wall on repairs to a s
tty engine or ridiculous oil consumption.
The best handling car i've ever owned ruined by absolutely awful (and well documented) expensive reliability issues. Read round the forums and you'll see what I mean, the engine is a peugeot unit I don't think much more needs to be said on that.
Just to give you a flavour, my car had done 43000 miles, decided just before christmas whilst on cruise control at 70mph that it wanted to lose compression on a piston by burning out a valve, brilliant present before christmas and the very reason that car didn't stay with me any longer along with the fact it could go through a standard bottle of oil in about 6000 miles.
That isn't even a well documented issue but you'll read about others having it happen, The oil consumption is an issue with all cars sharing that engine from the 207 gti to the DS3 dsport, there are far worse issues out there than that and that was a £700 repair.
As for the Type R, they are nice handling cars etc but it depends on your driving style, having to rag the balls off one to get the power out of it all the time gets a bit annoying after a while. If you are someone that drives like that anyway then you'll love it but on a long drive it really starts to become annoying.
tty engine or ridiculous oil consumption.The best handling car i've ever owned ruined by absolutely awful (and well documented) expensive reliability issues. Read round the forums and you'll see what I mean, the engine is a peugeot unit I don't think much more needs to be said on that.
Just to give you a flavour, my car had done 43000 miles, decided just before christmas whilst on cruise control at 70mph that it wanted to lose compression on a piston by burning out a valve, brilliant present before christmas and the very reason that car didn't stay with me any longer along with the fact it could go through a standard bottle of oil in about 6000 miles.
That isn't even a well documented issue but you'll read about others having it happen, The oil consumption is an issue with all cars sharing that engine from the 207 gti to the DS3 dsport, there are far worse issues out there than that and that was a £700 repair.
As for the Type R, they are nice handling cars etc but it depends on your driving style, having to rag the balls off one to get the power out of it all the time gets a bit annoying after a while. If you are someone that drives like that anyway then you'll love it but on a long drive it really starts to become annoying.
Astra Vxr is nice for talking about but driving the standard diff is very poor and it doesn't handle for me.
Ep3 great but not everyone's cup of tea go drive one tend to be like marmite. Make sure the history is good and they can drink oil. I got the misses the 5dr type s 2.0 and its been superb, but its 160 bhp and you sound like, you more power and so maccy d car park respect.
How about fiesta st150?
Ep3 great but not everyone's cup of tea go drive one tend to be like marmite. Make sure the history is good and they can drink oil. I got the misses the 5dr type s 2.0 and its been superb, but its 160 bhp and you sound like, you more power and so maccy d car park respect.
How about fiesta st150?
tyranical said:
Do not buy an R56 Cooper S unless you have a desire to piss money up the wall on repairs to a stty engine or ridiculous oil consumption.
The best handling car i've ever owned ruined by absolutely awful (and well documented) expensive reliability issues. Read round the forums and you'll see what I mean, the engine is a peugeot unit I don't think much more needs to be said on that.
Just to give you a flavour, my car had done 43000 miles, decided just before christmas whilst on cruise control at 70mph that it wanted to lose compression on a piston by burning out a valve, brilliant present before christmas and the very reason that car didn't stay with me any longer along with the fact it could go through a standard bottle of oil in about 6000 miles.
That isn't even a well documented issue but you'll read about others having it happen, The oil consumption is an issue with all cars sharing that engine from the 207 gti to the DS3 dsport, there are far worse issues out there than that and that was a £700 repair.
As for the Type R, they are nice handling cars etc but it depends on your driving style, having to rag the balls off one to get the power out of it all the time gets a bit annoying after a while. If you are someone that drives like that anyway then you'll love it but on a long drive it really starts to become annoying.
Brazilian engine used by psa what expect, you BMW buy the real thing not a bini. Nice if cut hair or are an estate agent in Peckham. I no some drive well but they seem to be more about status than the actual product.tty engine or ridiculous oil consumption.The best handling car i've ever owned ruined by absolutely awful (and well documented) expensive reliability issues. Read round the forums and you'll see what I mean, the engine is a peugeot unit I don't think much more needs to be said on that.
Just to give you a flavour, my car had done 43000 miles, decided just before christmas whilst on cruise control at 70mph that it wanted to lose compression on a piston by burning out a valve, brilliant present before christmas and the very reason that car didn't stay with me any longer along with the fact it could go through a standard bottle of oil in about 6000 miles.
That isn't even a well documented issue but you'll read about others having it happen, The oil consumption is an issue with all cars sharing that engine from the 207 gti to the DS3 dsport, there are far worse issues out there than that and that was a £700 repair.
As for the Type R, they are nice handling cars etc but it depends on your driving style, having to rag the balls off one to get the power out of it all the time gets a bit annoying after a while. If you are someone that drives like that anyway then you'll love it but on a long drive it really starts to become annoying.
jbsportstech said:
Ep3 great but not everyone's cup of tea go drive one tend to be like marmite. Make sure the history is good and they can drink oil. I got the misses the 5dr type s 2.0 and its been superb, but its 160 bhp and you sound like, you more power and so maccy d car park respect.
Not this old st again. The difference between the Type S and the Type R are not just "maccy d car park respect" things, it's a totally different car. People looking to buy a raw, stripped out hot hatch are not likely to be interested in a fully load mum mobile.Baryonyx said:
I actually much preferred the mk1 Leon Cupra R 225.
I had a 210 LCR, I'd say it had more inherent understeer than the astra (that I have now). Its probably not fair to compare engine output due to the LCR being a generation older, but I much prefer the torque spread the astra has.
Astra better screwed together than the Leon was. Plastics in the Leon were a bit cheap.
Liked the Leons looks though, refreshing change from A3s/Golfs, even if it was the same car underneath.
Thanks so far everyone,
Valuable reviews from actual drivers/owners
what I've got so far... in a nutshell
EP3; Agile, good throttle response due to N/A, vtec fun, need to be pushed to get the most out of it
XVR; Not so good handling, good power, good styling, boring interior, nothing special
Cupra (Mk1); Looks good, cheap feeling interior, easily accessible big power gains, chronic understeer
Cupra (Mk2); Also Looks good, no reviews here, but I've heard that it isn't anything special and has a rather lackluster feeling in general (plus another rather plain interior)
Cooper S; Handles great, can look quite mean, hit and miss interior (very Marmite), Expensive repair bills,
130i; RWD, nice engine, smart interior, all round good car, but out of my price range, also for me it just looks a little bit too neat all over and inside, (but prefer the look of the coupe 1 series variants)
Type S; Great car for its size, well equipped, bit of a mum-mobile
On terms of the Cooper and 130i, ATM I work for BMW, so I see these two makes all day every day, and rather not spend all day working on one to then get into one and drive home :P
would you say im in the ballpark here with those summaries?
Valuable reviews from actual drivers/owners
what I've got so far... in a nutshell
EP3; Agile, good throttle response due to N/A, vtec fun, need to be pushed to get the most out of it
XVR; Not so good handling, good power, good styling, boring interior, nothing special
Cupra (Mk1); Looks good, cheap feeling interior, easily accessible big power gains, chronic understeer
Cupra (Mk2); Also Looks good, no reviews here, but I've heard that it isn't anything special and has a rather lackluster feeling in general (plus another rather plain interior)
Cooper S; Handles great, can look quite mean, hit and miss interior (very Marmite), Expensive repair bills,
130i; RWD, nice engine, smart interior, all round good car, but out of my price range, also for me it just looks a little bit too neat all over and inside, (but prefer the look of the coupe 1 series variants)
Type S; Great car for its size, well equipped, bit of a mum-mobile
On terms of the Cooper and 130i, ATM I work for BMW, so I see these two makes all day every day, and rather not spend all day working on one to then get into one and drive home :P
would you say im in the ballpark here with those summaries?
Yeah pretty much.
VXR handling not as bad as people make out, lift off oversteer is easy to provoke if thats your sort of thing.
The car is now much modified, but early videos here (like the ring one): http://www.youtube.com/user/TheVxRacer?feature=wat... was just on a set of springs IIRC.
VXR handling not as bad as people make out, lift off oversteer is easy to provoke if thats your sort of thing.
The car is now much modified, but early videos here (like the ring one): http://www.youtube.com/user/TheVxRacer?feature=wat... was just on a set of springs IIRC.
as a bit of a wild card..
Before I had my MINI I had a mk3 ibiza FR.
The 1.8 turbo VAG engine "only" had 150bhp however a remap alone took it to 215bhp/260lb/ft of torque and it was really quick (if a little scary when you try to use brakes designed for 150bhp!)
Car was reliable too and I personally thought it looked pretty good, can pick em up pretty cheap these days and are pretty reliable in my experience but great fun.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
or you can buy a cupra version:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Same engine etc and remaps to the same power, has better brakes though.
Before I had my MINI I had a mk3 ibiza FR.
The 1.8 turbo VAG engine "only" had 150bhp however a remap alone took it to 215bhp/260lb/ft of torque and it was really quick (if a little scary when you try to use brakes designed for 150bhp!)
Car was reliable too and I personally thought it looked pretty good, can pick em up pretty cheap these days and are pretty reliable in my experience but great fun.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
or you can buy a cupra version:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Same engine etc and remaps to the same power, has better brakes though.
GlosAC said:
Thanks so far everyone,
Valuable reviews from actual drivers/owners
what I've got so far... in a nutshell
EP3; Agile, good throttle response due to N/A, vtec fun, need to be pushed to get the most out of it
XVR; Not so good handling, good power, good styling, boring interior, nothing special
Cupra (Mk1); Looks good, cheap feeling interior, easily accessible big power gains, chronic understeer
Cupra (Mk2); Also Looks good, no reviews here, but I've heard that it isn't anything special and has a rather lackluster feeling in general (plus another rather plain interior)
Cooper S; Handles great, can look quite mean, hit and miss interior (very Marmite), Expensive repair bills,
130i; RWD, nice engine, smart interior, all round good car, but out of my price range, also for me it just looks a little bit too neat all over and inside, (but prefer the look of the coupe 1 series variants)
Type S; Great car for its size, well equipped, bit of a mum-mobile
On terms of the Cooper and 130i, ATM I work for BMW, so I see these two makes all day every day, and rather not spend all day working on one to then get into one and drive home :P
would you say im in the ballpark here with those summaries?
Pretty good summary. Valuable reviews from actual drivers/owners
what I've got so far... in a nutshell
EP3; Agile, good throttle response due to N/A, vtec fun, need to be pushed to get the most out of it
XVR; Not so good handling, good power, good styling, boring interior, nothing special
Cupra (Mk1); Looks good, cheap feeling interior, easily accessible big power gains, chronic understeer
Cupra (Mk2); Also Looks good, no reviews here, but I've heard that it isn't anything special and has a rather lackluster feeling in general (plus another rather plain interior)
Cooper S; Handles great, can look quite mean, hit and miss interior (very Marmite), Expensive repair bills,
130i; RWD, nice engine, smart interior, all round good car, but out of my price range, also for me it just looks a little bit too neat all over and inside, (but prefer the look of the coupe 1 series variants)
Type S; Great car for its size, well equipped, bit of a mum-mobile
On terms of the Cooper and 130i, ATM I work for BMW, so I see these two makes all day every day, and rather not spend all day working on one to then get into one and drive home :P
would you say im in the ballpark here with those summaries?
Looks are subjective, but IMHO 130i M Sport looks pretty tasty and you have identified a number of very strong points in its favour. Truth is, its a cut above the others here and you can find one for $5.5k. the extra you pay now, you'll easily recoup at the other side.
Cooper S is bags of fun, awesome handling and very characterful. Again depreciation is the largest cost on any car and that's where these two are ahead. If you can fathom the fact you'll be working on them and driving one that is.
I'm getting the feeling, you are gonna go for the EP3. I have enjoyed the Vtech kicking in, but it gets a bit tiresome after a while and the novelty wore off quickly for me. The nature of the beast and the type of owners it attracts, means you must be aware of abused ones as there plenty and you won't want to pay over the odds for a well looked after one because. After all, you are buying a car designed over 12yrs ago.
All the best with your search
rajkohli81 said:
Pretty good summary.
Looks are subjective, but IMHO 130i M Sport looks pretty tasty and you have identified a number of very strong points in its favour. Truth is, its a cut above the others here and you can find one for $5.5k. the extra you pay now, you'll easily recoup at the other side.
I suspect you meant £5.5k. Where can you can find a 103i M Sport for that sort of cash?Looks are subjective, but IMHO 130i M Sport looks pretty tasty and you have identified a number of very strong points in its favour. Truth is, its a cut above the others here and you can find one for $5.5k. the extra you pay now, you'll easily recoup at the other side.
The closest I could find on the PH classifieds was this at £7495.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
Baryonyx said:
rajkohli81 said:
Pretty good summary.
Looks are subjective, but IMHO 130i M Sport looks pretty tasty and you have identified a number of very strong points in its favour. Truth is, its a cut above the others here and you can find one for $5.5k. the extra you pay now, you'll easily recoup at the other side.
I suspect you meant £5.5k. Where can you can find a 103i M Sport for that sort of cash?Looks are subjective, but IMHO 130i M Sport looks pretty tasty and you have identified a number of very strong points in its favour. Truth is, its a cut above the others here and you can find one for $5.5k. the extra you pay now, you'll easily recoup at the other side.
The closest I could find on the PH classifieds was this at £7495.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-REG-BMW-1-SERIES...
Just needs bit of T-Cut.
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