Brake pad dilemma - Z4MR with AP upgrade

[bozor]

My front pads/discs are in need of replacement and I'm having a really hard time figuring out which pads to get. I came across http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... but that hasn't really helped because the poster was after a more track orientated pad.

I've currently got ferrodo ds2500 pads and I'm after something that is more street rather than track - I've had the car for almost 2 years and it's only seen 1 track day so far . Can anyone point me in the right direction as to what I should be going for? Google is proving rather fruitless.

As an aside, where do people buy replacement discs from? http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk used to be my go to place but they don't seem to stock AP products at all anymore.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Used to get my AP discs from BG Developments. They make the bells and hub carrier brackets etc for AP anyway. Great company to deal with. Did some excellent custom work for me years ago.

Anyway, DS2500 are very over rated imo, but it's dust is borderline acceptable. How precious are you of your wheels? If you're not too fussed, take a look at the Pagid RS15. Phenomenal pad. Some of Performance Friction's materials are good too.

[bozor]

I haven't really had problems with dust from the 2500s, so ideally I would like something similar.

[Slippydiff]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Used to get my AP discs from BG Developments. They make the bells and hub carrier brackets etc for AP anyway. Great company to deal with. Did some excellent custom work for me years ago.

Anyway, DS2500 are very over rated imo, but it's dust is borderline acceptable. How precious are you of your wheels? If you're not too fussed, take a look at the Pagid RS15. Phenomenal pad. Some of Performance Friction's materials are good too.

Agree on both counts, BG developments are excellent, but depending on which kit you have on your car, Performance Friction do a 356 X 28 or 32mm disc that is direct replacement for the AP item)
The DS2500 are pretty unimpressive in my experience. I ran my CSL on RS29 fronts and DS2500 rears. A brilliant set up (though the RS 29's don't like wet/rusty discs, so not the best for winter use if the car is left outside rather than garaged if I'm honest)

[bozor]

I'm pretty sure that I have the 32mm thick discs but I will have to double check the original receipts.

The car does live outside all year round so maybe the rs29s are not for me. Do Pagid do more of a 'fast road' compound rather than track?

[Slippydiff]

bozor said:

I'm pretty sure that I have the 32mm thick discs but I will have to double check the original receipts.

The car does live outside all year round so maybe the rs29s are not for me. Do Pagid do more of a 'fast road' compound rather than track?

Have a read of this :

http://www.brakes-pads-discs.co.uk/pagid/products/...

and :

http://www.brakes-pads-discs.co.uk/pagid/products/

[bozor]

Thanks for that. They do seem the sort of thing I am after

One more question - I'm probably going to replace my rear pads too in the next 6 months. Should I have the same pads all round or have different ones front/back?

[shim]

bozor said:

My front pads/discs are in need of replacement and I'm having a really hard time figuring out which pads to get. I came across http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... but that hasn't really helped because the poster was after a more track orientated pad.

I've currently got ferrodo ds2500 pads and I'm after something that is more street rather than track - I've had the car for almost 2 years and it's only seen 1 track day so far . Can anyone point me in the right direction as to what I should be going for? Google is proving rather fruitless.

As an aside, where do people buy replacement discs from? http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk used to be my go to place but they don't seem to stock AP products at all anymore.

DS2500 are not track pads for the likes of a Z4M or M3E46 as the cars are too hevy for the pads and the heat means pad deposiuts are left and discs become very rumbly. |You have been lucky you havent had the problem with one trackday.

If you dont want DS2500 again, even though they are ok for the road and do not squeek, you could try Rs421 Pagids but they are a simloar compound.

Dont get Ds3000 or PF01 as dust is a killer!

Pagid Rs29 and Rs14 are too harsh if you only do road driving, but both good for track. (they dont do RS14 rears)

stick to same front and rear idealy altough with road driving you are unlikely to notice any unbalance or rear hop if you run different.

Personally i have alwsy run DS2500 for road and RS29 for track.

Part shape for Pagid is E8018 front and E1265 rear

[Slippydiff]

shim said:

Pagid Rs29 and Rs14 are too harsh if you only do road driving, but both good for track. (they dont do RS14 rears)

Can't comment on the RS14s, but RS29s most certainly aren't too harsh for road driving. I ran them for 30+K road miles on my CSL with AP 6 pots and AP/PF front discs along with the AP 4 pots on the rear.

Initially I ran the RS29s in the front only, I then fitted them in the rear too. The rears always squealed badly irrespective of how hot they got, I suspect because they weren't heat cycled/ bedded in sufficiently initially, and as a result they glazed up) either way, I couldn't live with the noise, so I pulled them out and replaced them with DS2500s. No more squealing and no brake balance issues either.

shim said:

Stick to same front and rear idealy altough with road driving you are unlikely to notice any unbalance or rear hop if you run different.

Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 31st January 11:27

[bozor]

Slippydiff said:

Initially I ran the RS29s in the front only, I then fitted them in the rear too. The rears always squealed badly irrespective of how hot they got, I suspect because they weren't heat cycled/ bedded in sufficiently initially, and as a result they glazed up) either way, I couldn't live with the noise, so I pulled them out and replaced them with DS2500s. No more squealing and no brake balance issues either.

Out of interest, what were the 29s like on the front? Was there much squeal? From what I read, they don't really like being used lightly.

[Slippydiff]

bozor said:

Out of interest, what were the 29s like on the front? Was there much squeal? From what I read, they don't really like being used lightly.

I never heard a squeak out of them, irrespective of whether the car was being driven gently around town or flat out along the Col De Turini. A lot seems to depend on useage and the method of bedding in. I have the same pads on my Mk1 996 GT3, along with Alcon discs and they squeal, but not consistently. The brakes on the front of the CSL never squealed.

As for what they're like ? They have huge bite and massive stopping power, far more impressive than the brakes on my old 996 GT2 (or indeed any Porsche I've owned)

As you know, the AP six conversion is a fantastic setup, the RS29s adds massively (IMO) to the confidence the kit provides over the standard brakes.

[bozor]

Sorry, by 'what are they like' I was mainly referring to noise. My DS2500s went through a phase of squealing in the summer, it was very audible with the roof off and I'd rather not have to deal with it again.

Thanks for your help

[Slippydiff]

bozor said:

Sorry, by 'what are they like' I was mainly referring to noise. My DS2500s went through a phase of squealing in the summer, it was very audible with the roof off and I'd rather not have to deal with it again.

Thanks for your help

You're welcome

Slippy said:

I never heard a squeak out of them, irrespective of whether the car was being driven gently around town or flat out along the Col De Turini. A lot seems to depend on useage and the method of bedding in. I have the same pads on my Mk1 996 GT3, along with Alcon discs and they squeal, but not consistently. The RS29s on the front of the CSL never squealed.

[shim]

RS29 front and rear can squeal badly, or you can be lucky and they might not.

when i used to use my CSL road and track i used to swap them out and then back in for trackdays so that i didnt have to cope with the squeal.

RS29 certainly can be used on road but they arent as progressive as DS2500 esp cold

[Slippydiff]

shim said:

RS29 certainly can be used on road but they arent as progressive as DS2500 esp cold

I guess that would depend on your ability to modulate them and the sensitivity in your right foot ! !
Within 24 hours of taking delivery of my CSL, I went on a 4,000 mile ten day Euro hoon to learn it's intricacies, within the first couple of days I'd adjusted my braking technique to allow for the RS29s higher CoF.

Personally, I'd rather have the improved stopping power and learn to modulate it, than accept the lesser performance of the DS2500's.

[shim]

Slippydiff said:

I guess that would depend on your ability to modulate them and the sensitivity in your right foot ! !
Within 24 hours of taking delivery of my CSL, I went on a 4,000 mile ten day Euro hoon to learn it's intricacies, within the first couple of days I'd adjusted my braking technique to allow for the RS29s higher CoF.

Personally, I'd rather have the improved stopping power and learn to modulate it, than accept the lesser performance of the DS2500's.

I obviously then bow to your greater ability to HOON and modulate your right foot.

[ga41]

For road brake pads why not try something like EBC's Yellowstuff? Haven't tried them personally but they're cheap and generally people seem to be happy with them.

I've had Stoptech Street Performance pads on my Stoptech big brake kit (Z4M too) and i was very happy with them, they're road pads but will handle the occasional track day, i did several with them. They're cheap too. Dust is OK with them and they are completely silent both on the drilled M discs and the grooved Stoptech ones.

[shim]

ga41 said:

For road brake pads why not try something like EBC's Yellowstuff? Haven't tried them personally but they're cheap and generally people seem to be happy with them.

.

NO CHEESE

EBC are not rated for over 1200kg cars and turn to Brie within 5 minutes

"pad for vehicles up to 3500 lbs or 1600 kilos weight or 200 BHP"

[ga41]

shim said:

ga41 said:

For road brake pads why not try something like EBC's Yellowstuff? Haven't tried them personally but they're cheap and generally people seem to be happy with them.

.

NO CHEESE

EBC are not rated for over 1200kg cars and turn to Brie within 5 minutes

"pad for vehicles up to 3500 lbs or 1600 kilos weight or 200 BHP"

Well the Z4M is around 1470-1500kg but fair enough.

[shim]

ga41 said:

Well the Z4M is around 1470-1500kg but fair enough.

but even the Z4M is a little ovr 200bhp