Handbuilt wheels
Discussion
Hopefully all you wise sages will be able to help.
When the weather gets better ill be looking at my first proper upgrade and conventional wisdom seems to be wheels is the first place to do it.
I ride for fun and fitness and will be doing sportives this year and plan on longer tours (lejog etc) next year. I have no plans to race, but am competitive so always looking to push myself to go faster up a hill or round a certain loop. I have a Giant Defy 1.
My research so far seems to be getting some good handbuilts is a good option. So my question is:
With a budget of £500 (I'll allow a little man maths), what would you be buying?
What Hubs, rims and spokes...who would you be asking to do it? I've checked out Wheelsmith.
From an aesthetics perspective a slight aero room would be good.
Now if I'm completely off track and some off the shelfs are better then suggest away.
Over to you all.
Oh and if you need any other info let me know.
When the weather gets better ill be looking at my first proper upgrade and conventional wisdom seems to be wheels is the first place to do it.
I ride for fun and fitness and will be doing sportives this year and plan on longer tours (lejog etc) next year. I have no plans to race, but am competitive so always looking to push myself to go faster up a hill or round a certain loop. I have a Giant Defy 1.
My research so far seems to be getting some good handbuilts is a good option. So my question is:
With a budget of £500 (I'll allow a little man maths), what would you be buying?
What Hubs, rims and spokes...who would you be asking to do it? I've checked out Wheelsmith.
From an aesthetics perspective a slight aero room would be good.
Now if I'm completely off track and some off the shelfs are better then suggest away.
Over to you all.
Oh and if you need any other info let me know.
£500 will buy you a reasonble set of wheels. Stick to off the shelf at that price. MAvic kysyriums are good wheels, they do a few different options from equipe, to SL, wiggle will have them listed. Bontrangers new tubless ready racelite or race Xlite are also worth a look. lots to choose from and at that price point all will perform well.
I hope that helps.
I hope that helps.
I'd go with wheelsmith, in particular novatec superlite hubs on 30mm ird aero rims with sapim cx ray spokes. stunning wheels and as light as ksyriums/RS80 C24s and easily rebuilt if required.
I only bought the campag zondas becuase everyone bought me wiggle vouchers for Christmas but wheelsmith were top of my list before Christmas.
However, definately look at the Campag Neutrons, I was debating if I should save up for the Neutrons but I just couldnt justiify the cost. For the money they are stunning wheels and have a reputation to match. Magnus Backstedt famously won Paris-Roubaix on a pair... or the Hed Ardennes... hey its only £100 over budget!!!
I only bought the campag zondas becuase everyone bought me wiggle vouchers for Christmas but wheelsmith were top of my list before Christmas.
However, definately look at the Campag Neutrons, I was debating if I should save up for the Neutrons but I just couldnt justiify the cost. For the money they are stunning wheels and have a reputation to match. Magnus Backstedt famously won Paris-Roubaix on a pair... or the Hed Ardennes... hey its only £100 over budget!!!
RGambo said:
£500 will buy you a reasonble set of wheels. Stick to off the shelf at that price. MAvic kysyriums are good wheels, they do a few different options from equipe, to SL, wiggle will have them listed. Bontrangers new tubless ready racelite or race Xlite are also worth a look. lots to choose from and at that price point all will perform well.
I hope that helps.
Why stick to factory/OTS wheels at this price? A good, well-built and well-spec'd set of handbuilts made *precisely* to the riders requirements will be better than any compromised, suit-as-many-people-as-possible OTS wheel with hard-to-source spares and a healthy dose of marketing on top...I hope that helps.
Get in touch with Harry Rowland, Wheelsmith, Paul Hewitt etc and see what they have to suggest based on your weight and intended use. You'll have a set of bespoke wheels and have a sizeable chunk of change. I'm about to pull the trigger on a nice set of Ultegras/Open Pros from Mr. Rowland: perfect for me for Flanders and Roubaix
Jimbo. said:
Why stick to factory/OTS wheels at this price? A good, well-built and well-spec'd set of handbuilts made *precisely* to the riders requirements will be better than any compromised, suit-as-many-people-as-possible OTS wheel with hard-to-source spares and a healthy dose of marketing on top...
Get in touch with Harry Rowland, Wheelsmith, Paul Hewitt etc and see what they have to suggest based on your weight and intended use. You'll have a set of bespoke wheels and have a sizeable chunk of change. I'm about to pull the trigger on a nice set of Ultegras/Open Pros from Mr. Rowland: perfect for me for Flanders and Roubaix
Agree fully with the above. I've been building wheels for myself (and others) for over 30yrs, and I still ride a pair that are 25 years old! (I don't brake a lot). I'd go for 36 spokes F&R (now 40H rear not available), but then I'm old-fashioned.Get in touch with Harry Rowland, Wheelsmith, Paul Hewitt etc and see what they have to suggest based on your weight and intended use. You'll have a set of bespoke wheels and have a sizeable chunk of change. I'm about to pull the trigger on a nice set of Ultegras/Open Pros from Mr. Rowland: perfect for me for Flanders and Roubaix
Jimbo. said:
Why stick to factory/OTS wheels at this price? A good, well-built and well-spec'd set of handbuilts made *precisely* to the riders requirements will be better than any compromised, suit-as-many-people-as-possible OTS wheel with hard-to-source spares and a healthy dose of marketing on top...
Get in touch with Harry Rowland, Wheelsmith, Paul Hewitt etc and see what they have to suggest based on your weight and intended use. You'll have a set of bespoke wheels and have a sizeable chunk of change. I'm about to pull the trigger on a nice set of Ultegras/Open Pros from Mr. Rowland: perfect for me for Flanders and Roubaix
I'm with Jimbo on this. At c£500 I'd be looking at hand built wheels all day long. You probably won't end up with an entirely unique set, but they'll be far closer to unique than anything OTS from t'internet. Good hand built wheels start around the £280 mark, and there's a lot of choice hovering around the £500 price point, with the option of taking the builder's advice and tweaking the specification and components to suit you and the type of riding you do. If you can afford to stretch your budget a little, a good wheelbuilder will be able to target your cash where it will do YOU the most good. As Jimbo alluded to above, one-size-fits-all rarely fits anyone perfectly, whereas bespoke will fit YOU from the start.Get in touch with Harry Rowland, Wheelsmith, Paul Hewitt etc and see what they have to suggest based on your weight and intended use. You'll have a set of bespoke wheels and have a sizeable chunk of change. I'm about to pull the trigger on a nice set of Ultegras/Open Pros from Mr. Rowland: perfect for me for Flanders and Roubaix
London424 said:
Teebs said:
Wheelsmith Race 23's @ £450 would and probably will be my choice.
What's the main difference between the Race 23's and IRD Aero 30mm?30mm is probably when you can start making an aero rim, so the IRDs are slightly more noticeable in a cross wind and probably a bit stiffer by virture of the depth but will make a noticeable difference over 22+ mph.
The Race 23s are 23mmd deep, machined and anodised so make a very strong, light rim but very much not an aero profile.
Incidentally, we keep banging on about the "rebulidability" of handbuilts and this is why, a replacement Sapim cx ray spoke is about £2, Campag do a set of 6 spokes for the Zonda (there are different lengths for front rear/offside etc) for £40...
pablo said:
[flippant] 7mm [/flippant]
30mm is probably when you can start making an aero rim, so the IRDs are slightly more noticeable in a cross wind and probably a bit stiffer by virture of the depth but will make a noticeable difference over 22+ mph.
The Race 23s are 23mmd deep, machined and anodised so make a very strong, light rim but very much not an aero profile.
Incidentally, we keep banging on about the "rebulidability" of handbuilts and this is why, a replacement Sapim cx ray spoke is about £2, Campag do a set of 6 spokes for the Zonda (there are different lengths for front rear/offside etc) for £40...
A CX Ray is perhaps the most expensive spoke out there! A more moderate/typical ACI affair, DT Swiss Comp or Sapim Laser will come in a fair bit less. Plus they (any) spoke will be infinitely easier to source. I wouldn't fancy my chances trying to find a spare Fulcrum spoke in the Alps the day before the Marmotte' f' instance. It was hard enough (read: impossible) to find some Fox 36 spares in Morzine 30mm is probably when you can start making an aero rim, so the IRDs are slightly more noticeable in a cross wind and probably a bit stiffer by virture of the depth but will make a noticeable difference over 22+ mph.
The Race 23s are 23mmd deep, machined and anodised so make a very strong, light rim but very much not an aero profile.
Incidentally, we keep banging on about the "rebulidability" of handbuilts and this is why, a replacement Sapim cx ray spoke is about £2, Campag do a set of 6 spokes for the Zonda (there are different lengths for front rear/offside etc) for £40...
Jimbo. said:
pablo said:
[flippant] 7mm [/flippant]
30mm is probably when you can start making an aero rim, so the IRDs are slightly more noticeable in a cross wind and probably a bit stiffer by virture of the depth but will make a noticeable difference over 22+ mph.
The Race 23s are 23mmd deep, machined and anodised so make a very strong, light rim but very much not an aero profile.
Incidentally, we keep banging on about the "rebulidability" of handbuilts and this is why, a replacement Sapim cx ray spoke is about £2, Campag do a set of 6 spokes for the Zonda (there are different lengths for front rear/offside etc) for £40...
A CX Ray is perhaps the most expensive spoke out there! A more moderate/typical ACI affair, DT Swiss Comp or Sapim Laser will come in a fair bit less. Plus they (any) spoke will be infinitely easier to source. I wouldn't fancy my chances trying to find a spare Fulcrum spoke in the Alps the day before the Marmotte' f' instance. It was hard enough (read: impossible) to find some Fox 36 spares in Morzine 30mm is probably when you can start making an aero rim, so the IRDs are slightly more noticeable in a cross wind and probably a bit stiffer by virture of the depth but will make a noticeable difference over 22+ mph.
The Race 23s are 23mmd deep, machined and anodised so make a very strong, light rim but very much not an aero profile.
Incidentally, we keep banging on about the "rebulidability" of handbuilts and this is why, a replacement Sapim cx ray spoke is about £2, Campag do a set of 6 spokes for the Zonda (there are different lengths for front rear/offside etc) for £40...
London424 said:
Thanks everyone so far. What are the thoughts about number of spokes? I see lots of different options here.
Everything else being equal.... the more the merrier!In the past I've used 15/17 DB spokes (but 36 of then) to still keep the weight down but keep good strength/rigidity
Spoke count is important for aero performance. 36 used to be the norm but TBH it's overkill unless you're a proper fat knacker. 32 will be amble for the majority of people, and 28 ok too. Bear in mind that a lot of factory builts are 24, or even 20 or fewer spokes and that might give you a feel. Have a chat with a good wheelbuilder though. You'll get much better advice than you will from me.
spoke count is quite hard because there are differet patterns like the campag G3 variation as well as straight pull and single cross etc to consider. also things like the size of the hub flange will affect wheel strength on the basis that the spokes will be shorter. all i can say with any certainty is how much more i notice the bladed spokes on the zondas comapred to the traditional double butted round spokes on the fulcrums in a cross wind!
Rocksteadyeddie said:
Spoke count is important for aero performance. 36 used to be the norm but TBH it's overkill unless you're a proper fat knacker. 32 will be amble for the majority of people, and 28 ok too. Bear in mind that a lot of factory builts are 24, or even 20 or fewer spokes and that might give you a feel. Have a chat with a good wheelbuilder though. You'll get much better advice than you will from me.
Agree re the aero for spoke count, but rigidity is lost to some extent when spoke count goes down, however with a deep aero rim is that still an issue? As I said I'm old fashioned. I'd go for a radial spoke front any time.I would suggest getting in contact with Harry Rowland, he really knows his onions and is a very well respected wheel builder. I have a set of handbuilt Mavic Open Pro's on 105 hubs on my CX bike and they have proved to be bomb proof so far!
I was in a similar position to you early summer, I was on the market for a set of handbuilt road wheels but at the time Planet-X had a special on C24 RS80's (£220 iirc) so it was difficult to pass them by. They totally transformed the ride, much quicker and easier to spin up that my stock wheels, and climbed a hell of a lot better. Also, at 1550g's they were lighter than any other handbuilts that I could find around the £500 mark, although arguably handbuilts will always be more durable.
My personally opinion on semi-aeros are that they look great, but require a lot more effort to get up to speed and keep going due to the rotational weight, and they DO suffer on windy days. If you want a set of wheels for fast 'head down and peddle hard' rides where you won't be stopping and starting then semi-aero's are probably a good bet, but for a 'general use' wheelset, or for long days in the saddle I would not buy them again - for me personally lightweight low profile rims win hands down every day!
If I had £500 for a set of wheels I would either be speaking to Harry or picking up a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite's.
I was in a similar position to you early summer, I was on the market for a set of handbuilt road wheels but at the time Planet-X had a special on C24 RS80's (£220 iirc) so it was difficult to pass them by. They totally transformed the ride, much quicker and easier to spin up that my stock wheels, and climbed a hell of a lot better. Also, at 1550g's they were lighter than any other handbuilts that I could find around the £500 mark, although arguably handbuilts will always be more durable.
My personally opinion on semi-aeros are that they look great, but require a lot more effort to get up to speed and keep going due to the rotational weight, and they DO suffer on windy days. If you want a set of wheels for fast 'head down and peddle hard' rides where you won't be stopping and starting then semi-aero's are probably a good bet, but for a 'general use' wheelset, or for long days in the saddle I would not buy them again - for me personally lightweight low profile rims win hands down every day!
If I had £500 for a set of wheels I would either be speaking to Harry or picking up a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite's.
MadDad said:
I was in a similar position to you early summer, I was on the market for a set of handbuilt road wheels but at the time Planet-X had a special on C24 RS80's (£220 iirc) so it was difficult to pass them by. They totally transformed the ride, much quicker and easier to spin up that my stock wheels, and climbed a hell of a lot better. Also, at 1550g's they were lighter than any other handbuilts that I could find around the £500 mark, although arguably handbuilts will always be more durable.
If I had £500 for a set of wheels I would either be speaking to Harry or picking up a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite's.
Good call on the Planet-X site. I hadn't thought of looking there for components. Ultegra 6700 @ £235 (1652g) and C24 RS80 @ £320 (1521g). If I had £500 for a set of wheels I would either be speaking to Harry or picking up a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite's.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm also looking at Strada's Velocity A23 handbuilts, but they are heavier at the price - £395 for 1625g and £495 for 1540g. I keep promising myself that I won't go all 'weight weenie' but it's hard to justify buying heavier wheels which cost (considerably) more.
I'll save the handbuilt experience for my planned set of 'retro' wheels, where there isn't such a great choice of 'off the shelf' alternatives.......
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff