Discussion
I still do not understand the fascination of the Ring. I hope that Those of you that know me testify that I will always commit 100% to any corner on a race track. My mitigation is a belief in my own ability and those of the marshals to telegraph any hazards ahead of me.
The ring is so long that it's just not realistic to marshal it effectively so the chances of ending up in someone else's accident is much higher. For me, the odds don't work. I see it more like Playing Russian Roulette with your car and more importantly your life.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkWb2jnFJ90&featu...
Stationery traffic on the exit of a fast blind bend. A yellow flag could have made the difference between life and death for this driver.
The ring is so long that it's just not realistic to marshal it effectively so the chances of ending up in someone else's accident is much higher. For me, the odds don't work. I see it more like Playing Russian Roulette with your car and more importantly your life.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkWb2jnFJ90&featu...
Stationery traffic on the exit of a fast blind bend. A yellow flag could have made the difference between life and death for this driver.
That is a general problem when driving in the TF sessions at the Ring - you can never trust that people stopping will run far enough down the track to really slow the oncoming traffic - or that the other drivers will respect your directions.
Personally I feel his speed carried through the Lauda kink is already excessive just based on the rain and general greasiness of the braking area into Bergwerk. It doesn't show in the video, but he might be losing the back end even before he realises that Bergwerk is jammed in front of him.
CK
Personally I feel his speed carried through the Lauda kink is already excessive just based on the rain and general greasiness of the braking area into Bergwerk. It doesn't show in the video, but he might be losing the back end even before he realises that Bergwerk is jammed in front of him.
CK
Waitforme said:
Put in a slow lap or take a chance on every blind corner of there not being a hazard awaiting.
...or somewhere inbetween (as I do). I don't go chasing lap times, and I have always driven on the loose assumption that there *might* be an incident ahead. I've never got near 8 mins (apart from in the Taxi with Sabine), but I've never had any close shaves either. I've always enjoyed myself though.That driver in the video was clearly 'on it' and the inevitable happened when there was an unsighted obstruction ahead.
The ring is a very special place for petrolheads, despite all of the recent politics and the surge in popularity over the last few years.
Steve - it's probably difficult for you to understand what the ring means to the 'everyday joe'.
That's the scariest Ring crash video I've ever seen. Very nasty. 115mph is a hell of a lick through the Lauda links and that really bring home how difficult it is to lose speed after you have lost control. Hope the driver was ok.
As to Steve's question... why indeed? My first visit to TF (Tourist driving, where you have pretty much chaos, cars and bikes, limited marshalling) was in 2006 and I've been back each year since apart from last year. But I think no more TF for me now. I'm doing the DN track day which is a lot safer than TF, I hope.
Steve, I'd be interested in yuor perspective on the Ring as circuit to drive. Maybe as a racing driver, it's like comparing offices. But for me, I love driving on track and learning a track, and the Ring is, among the limited selection of circuits I've driven on, without equal.
It's a challenge that keeps you coming back. Luckily I can't afford a GT3RS so any accident I have at the Lauda links will be a lot slower. I suppose the guy hitting me is still going full tilt though... sobering stuff.
Joel
As to Steve's question... why indeed? My first visit to TF (Tourist driving, where you have pretty much chaos, cars and bikes, limited marshalling) was in 2006 and I've been back each year since apart from last year. But I think no more TF for me now. I'm doing the DN track day which is a lot safer than TF, I hope.
Steve, I'd be interested in yuor perspective on the Ring as circuit to drive. Maybe as a racing driver, it's like comparing offices. But for me, I love driving on track and learning a track, and the Ring is, among the limited selection of circuits I've driven on, without equal.
It's a challenge that keeps you coming back. Luckily I can't afford a GT3RS so any accident I have at the Lauda links will be a lot slower. I suppose the guy hitting me is still going full tilt though... sobering stuff.
Joel
barchetta_boy said:
Steve, I'd be interested in yuor perspective on the Ring as circuit to drive. Maybe as a racing driver, it's like comparing offices.
I think that is perhaps the definining difference, and why it's not just a case of 'ring' or 'track/circuit'; I don't see it as a track/racing circuit. I see it as an A road where I can push that bit harder without worrying about oncoming traffic.Steve Rance said:
I still do not understand the fascination of the Ring....
I've been going there for quite a few years, attended 10 times last year and drove 93 laps and passengered 51 laps in 2012 alone.Difficult to convey in words the feeling once you're there, 95% of drivers are considerate and you only get to hear about the unfortunate accidents, which are still in the minority.
Edited by Martian O on Tuesday 29th January 16:11
Martian O said:
Steve Rance said:
I still do not understand the fascination of the Ring....
I've been going there for quite a few years, attended 10 times last year and drove 93 laps and passengered 51 laps in 2012 alone.Difficult to convey in words the feeling once you're there, 95% of drivers are considerate and you only get to hear about the unfortunate accidents, which are still in the minority.
Edited by Martian O on Tuesday 29th January 16:11
For the linked video someone dumped coolant on the apex. Could have been worse, it could have been a biker.
The Ring shouldn't be considered as a race-track or a track day, and should be driven more to reflect what it is - a public road. You don't expect marshalls on a fast A road in the UK, so you drive accordingly. I would say the same is true for the 'Ring (also considering, of course, that it is one way).
For me the liability/insurance issue is the main concern - you could be personally liable for serious damage or injury to a third party.
For me the liability/insurance issue is the main concern - you could be personally liable for serious damage or injury to a third party.
I have pretty much resolved not to do the ring again (always done it on 2 wheels apart from 1 lap in my old A3 TDI tow car as it was raining and even then I almost binned it at Metsgefeld), due to the number of close shaves I have had.
I did actually crash once at Brunchen on a closed day (just me, self inflicted), but have had an OMG 2 wheel slide on spilled coolant on the uphill left hander after Karousel, momentarily lost my front at Hohe Acht as my mates tax disc holder fell off and went under my wheel, been pushed onto the grass at well over the ton after Pflanzgarten II and nearly rear ended a BMW on the main straight, who decided to do a brake test on the cruise back to the pits, amongst loads of buttock clenching moments involving stripped down Golfs and 3 series (mostly German).
I have unfortunately been there twice when the circuit has been closed as people have died and witnessed the Polizei arrest a guy in a 5 series who punted a bike off at Flugplatz.
Don't get me wrong, I love the place and the roads surrounding it, but sadly I increasingly get the feeling that if I continue to go there, it will become a case of when not if, as amply demonstrated in the OP video link?
I did actually crash once at Brunchen on a closed day (just me, self inflicted), but have had an OMG 2 wheel slide on spilled coolant on the uphill left hander after Karousel, momentarily lost my front at Hohe Acht as my mates tax disc holder fell off and went under my wheel, been pushed onto the grass at well over the ton after Pflanzgarten II and nearly rear ended a BMW on the main straight, who decided to do a brake test on the cruise back to the pits, amongst loads of buttock clenching moments involving stripped down Golfs and 3 series (mostly German).
I have unfortunately been there twice when the circuit has been closed as people have died and witnessed the Polizei arrest a guy in a 5 series who punted a bike off at Flugplatz.
Don't get me wrong, I love the place and the roads surrounding it, but sadly I increasingly get the feeling that if I continue to go there, it will become a case of when not if, as amply demonstrated in the OP video link?
I've never been.
I'll never have the time or money to go 2 or 3 times a month and being based up North it's quite a trek, therefore I know I'll never be able to learn the track and commit to corners like you can on a UK track.
So basically if I ever go, it will just be for the roadtrip, the spectating and the banter at the hotel bar. I'll do a lap but by no means a commited trackday style lap.
Too much of a mix of machinery and ability. It just doesn't appeal.
I'll never have the time or money to go 2 or 3 times a month and being based up North it's quite a trek, therefore I know I'll never be able to learn the track and commit to corners like you can on a UK track.
So basically if I ever go, it will just be for the roadtrip, the spectating and the banter at the hotel bar. I'll do a lap but by no means a commited trackday style lap.
Too much of a mix of machinery and ability. It just doesn't appeal.
Been few times and done about 9 laps. Wouldn't do a TF again.
Last year was chaos and the deterioration of driver awareness/skill/understanding/consideration over just a few years is shocking. Too much of a lottery in an expensive car.
I'll stick to uk circuits with more run off for now, I prefer the risks.
Last year was chaos and the deterioration of driver awareness/skill/understanding/consideration over just a few years is shocking. Too much of a lottery in an expensive car.
I'll stick to uk circuits with more run off for now, I prefer the risks.
CK_N4S said:
That is a general problem when driving in the TF sessions at the Ring - you can never trust that people stopping will run far enough down the track to really slow the oncoming traffic - or that the other drivers will respect your directions.
Personally I feel his speed carried through the Lauda kink is already excessive just based on the rain and general greasiness of the braking area into Bergwerk. It doesn't show in the video, but he might be losing the back end even before he realises that Bergwerk is jammed in front of him.
CK
I think he loses the rear whilst turning in on a greasy surface. In normal conditions he has ample time to brake prior to bergwerk. He seems to lift as soon as the back starts coming round which is why the car then careered towards the inner Armco?Personally I feel his speed carried through the Lauda kink is already excessive just based on the rain and general greasiness of the braking area into Bergwerk. It doesn't show in the video, but he might be losing the back end even before he realises that Bergwerk is jammed in front of him.
CK
Very unlucky. Riding/driving the ring in anything other than full dry/full wet is a risky business these days. There are unfortunately a fair amount of coolant spills which add to the mixture of different surfaces/over banding/repairs of varying ages, etc.
Closed t/day only for me these days, although I'm still wanting to do some of the 6hr VLN races...
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