Am I missing anything?

[kVA]

Want to 'downgrade' from my 996 Turbo (to raise some capital and be finance free)... Have a budget of £5,000 max and want something quick that can also carry a couple of large dogs, occasionally... Prefer 4WD and the default choice is a Scooby wagon...

However, I'm not up to speed with this sector / price bracket (having been in 911's for 12 years now) - should I be looking at anything else? Or is the Scooby unbeatable?

PS. Anyone with a Scooby wagon that fancies an upgrade to a sub-£20,000 996 Turbo, let me know!!!

[Snowboy]

I would say a Cayenne.
But not at that price.

Scooby.
Maybe an Audi Quatro Estate.

[sparks_E39]

S4 Avant

[McSam]

sparks_E39 said:

S4 Avant

This many times over an Impreza.

ETA: This one, for example:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

Edited by McSam on Tuesday 29th January 17:00

[soad]

Subaru Forester STi?

[kVA]

McSam said:

This many times over an Impreza.

ETA: This one, for example:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

Edited by McSam on Tuesday 29th January 17:00

Isn't the handling a bit suspect on them?

Interested why you feel it is so much better?

(I did look at that one actually, before I posted this)

[kVA]

soad said:

Subaru Forester STi?

Had thought of that, too, but already have a Trooper, so don't really need an off-roader.

Anyone know if S3 is any good? Drove one on the handling circuit at Bedford, years ago, but didn't get out of 3rd gear, so not sure what they are like on the road!

[tomsugden]

Loved my old S3, and have also owned exactly that generation of S4. The S3 is a good all rounder, comfortable and fairly quick, but you wouldn't get 2 dogs in it unless seats were folded down. That S4 looks beautiful though. Just be aware that the turbos may need replacing at some stage soon, and they're not cheap.

[kVA]

tomsugden said:

Loved my old S3, and have also owned exactly that generation of S4. The S3 is a good all rounder, comfortable and fairly quick, but you wouldn't get 2 dogs in it unless seats were folded down. That S4 looks beautiful though. Just be aware that the turbos may need replacing at some stage soon, and they're not cheap.

Seats down is fine, for the dogs - it will be for occasional use, as I have a fully caged Trooper for serious 'dogging' outings

S3 quicker and better handling than S4, I would guess?

[McSam]

kVA said:

McSam said:

This many times over an Impreza.

ETA: This one, for example:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

Edited by McSam on Tuesday 29th January 17:00

Isn't the handling a bit suspect on them?

Interested why you feel it is so much better?

(I did look at that one actually, before I posted this)

Well, from what you posted it sounds like you want something versatile and "quick enough", but having driven Porsches and Audis for years I can't help feeling you'd find the Impreza lacking in quality, and it might well get irritating after a while. The S4, on the other hand, is simply a very nicely put-together estate car (with excellent seats and a really nice cabin, actually) that happens to have a pretty brutal biturbo V6. It can be completely normal and relaxing, but also stands up very well on a bit of a hoon.

Handling.. No, not suspect, I don't think that's fair to them! Of course it naturally tends to understeer when you get really carried away, but then so does an Impreza. You'll be aware of the weight at the nose, but it's well-controlled and you can still have fun. Just seems like a far better all-round car.

If it's a B-road blaster you primarily want, but with only occasional practical stuff, maybe look elsewhere. For a more realistic proposition, though (ie. reverse those priorities!) then it'll be great.

And that is a totally gorgeous example..

ETA - No, the S3 uses a single-turbo four-pot and is much slower. It's also usually front-wheel-drive and only sends torque to the rear when required, while the S4 is permanent 4WD (and has stratospheric tuning potential). Re. the turbos on S4s, most have now been replaced with K04 models, and problems are rare.

Edited by McSam on Tuesday 29th January 20:11

[tomsugden]

Quicker point to point, maybe, but no way in a straight line. The S4 I believe is permanent 4wd, whereas the S3 isn't.

I've also owned a Scooby turbo wagon. My money would probably go on an S3, but make sure it's the later 225bhp model.

[kVA]

tomsugden said:

Quicker point to point, maybe, but no way in a straight line. The S4 I believe is permanent 4wd, whereas the S3 isn't.

I've also owned a Scooby turbo wagon. My money would probably go on an S3, but make sure it's the later 225bhp model.

Wow - you're the man to ask, then!!! LOL

Bit worried about pushing the budget on the S4 and then (knowing my luck) having to fork out for new turbos!

Mostly FWD is cool with me - used to rally SAAB 99s and mastered left-foot braking... It will be fun to do that again I did think about a Mazda 3 MPS, actually, but quite like the occasional 4WD idea for snow and mud...

Hmmm... food for thought, now

If you had to choose one for 'fun' ONLY - which would it be then?

[tomsugden]

That's a tough question, but I guess it would be the Scooby. The build quality is nothing like the s3 or s4 though. Lots of plastic.

Ask me which one I'd most like to own again? The S3. Great all round, fast, comfortable and well put together motor, and capable of returning decent mpg on a run too.

[tomsugden]

Just to throw in a curved ball, have you thought about a VTEC Honda? An old prelude with 4ws is on my todo list.

[Tom911]

DONT GET RID!!!!!!

[Lightningman]

Cost of running the Quattro is going to be more than the Impreza - if you are looking for cheap performance, the Subaru has the upper hand. I ran one of the Typ 8D A4s for 24-months (not an S3 but a 2.8) and the maintenance/running costs were far above average (and this was a low mileage example and when they weren't very old). If money is an issue - which you seem to state it is - the Impreza makes more sense imho

[kVA]

Tom911 said:

DONT GET RID!!!!!!

I don't want to, but I need some cash for a different type of late-mid-life crisis Change of career and the Porsche just isn't practical - need to be able to get to more remote places than that front splitter will allow (and 295 tyres can grip on) and, because I've usually got one or more dogs with me, needs a hatch (and be able to leave a dog inside for more than 2 minutes)

Had my Porsche fix now - 993 C4, 996 C4 and now Turbo: Total in excess of 160,000 miles in 11 years and have to admit to an itch to get back behind the wheel of a 'rally'-type car again (dabbled a bit in my Uni days

It will be a wrench and a sad day, when it goes, but needs must and all that...

[rhinochopig]

tomsugden said:

That's a tough question, but I guess it would be the Scooby. The build quality is nothing like the s3 or s4 though. Lots of plastic.

Ask me which one I'd most like to own again? The S3. Great all round, fast, comfortable and well put together motor, and capable of returning decent mpg on a run too.

Depends on how you define build quality. The reliability on a Subaru is typically bombproof and they don't tend to squeak or rattle. Yes the interior uses cheap plastics, but the seats are superb - even in the base models - and the driving position is ergonomically sound. It may not be as nice a place to sit, but it depends on where your priorities lie; nice interior with iffy turbos or cheaper looking but still comfy and well screwed together.

[V8RX7]

rhinochopig said:

The reliability on a Subaru is typically bombproof and they don't tend to squeak or rattle.

That is a myth - The old non turbo Subarus went on and on but loads of Turbo Foresters / Imprezas have bottom end problems around 80k

OP I'd consider the Legacy, A4 3.0 or remap a 1.8T Quattro

[RobCrezz]

How about this?
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=440...

If its less fun to drive than your 996 I'll eat my hat