Back to full frame - But which one?

[MikeGTi]

I've been using my Fuji X Pro 1 for around 9 months now, and somehow I just don't feel I work with it as well as I did with my 5D2. So now I'm back in the market for a full frame DSLR.

I used to have a 5D Mark 2, which I loved, but now I seem to be erring towards the D800 for it's handling of noise at high ISO and the way in which Nikon Flashguns seem to be easier to remote trigger and use in groups.

So, what are people thoughts on 5D Mark 3 vs D800 vs 6d vs D600? The internet reviews seem to indicate that there's not a lot in it at each price bracket.



Ta, Confused of the UK.

[RobDickinson]

Roger over at lensrental is going though this process rather publicly.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-...

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/02/roger-buys...

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/02/roger-buys...


Overall any modern FF body will be a killer camera.

Nikon/sony sensors are better. IMO (for me) canon lenses are better.

Nikon has some issues with live view and quality control at the moment, canon has banding at low ISO if you push process.

[RobDickinson]

MikeGTi said:

I used to have a 5D Mark 2, which I loved, but now I seem to be erring towards the D800 for it's handling of noise at high ISO and the way in which Nikon Flashguns seem to be easier to remote trigger and use in groups.

So, what are people thoughts on 5D Mark 3 vs D800 vs 6d vs D600? The internet reviews seem to indicate that there's not a lot in it at each price bracket.

TBH the 5d3 and 6d are as good or better than the nikons at high ISO, but theres so little in it its not worth worrying about. The nikons are better at low ISO ( more DR more resolution).

5d3 autofocus is stunningly good. Just slightly poorer than the 1dx but both are significantly ahead of everything else ( D4 is probably the closest next run).

I havnt used a D800 in anger, seems a decent body. Big files but near MF resolution.

6D and D600 are pretty evens. Both really have 2nd tier AF, neither have a good spread of points. Both have good IQ and enough toys/performance. IMO the 6D is a step up all round on the 5d2.

Canons new radio flash guns seem awesome but there expensive.

[MikeGTi]

Thanks for the answers Rob, I'll give the links a read.

[K12beano]

Much as I am an advocate for the D800 which I find just stunning, I can't hep but think that the Canon would likely be your choice from familiarity.

Of course, if there's particular glass or accessories that swing it then you should start from there.

Otherwise whatever handles for you.

As for the D800. Nikon have some quirky menu-deep annoying shooting banks which are not particularly intuitive to find. Clearly, the final output from any of the models you mention can be stunning. In terms of differences, these are just about minimal in the real world as far as image quality, but a D800 is not aimed at the action end of the market and if you are going to get the best out of it you want quality glass and a good tripod linked with excellent technique. I think the others might be a little more forgiving if you want to go pixel-peeping.

[RobDickinson]

K12beano said:

if you are going to get the best out of it you want quality glass and a good tripod linked with excellent technique.

This is one of the weird things Roger found. Yes to get the best out of it you need the best lenses, but the resolution helps make up for using a poorer lens.

[Pickled]

If you've had a Canon before, I'd say stick with a system your familiar with. I'm a die hard Nikon shooter (D80-D200-D2X-D700-D3) and a mate has a 1D4 and 5D2, and i really struggled when I had a play with his cameras, took me while too even figure out how to turn the 5D2 on , whereas any new Nikon I've bought, everything just felt natural (to me). I do prefer the colour rendition of Canon files SOC.

I'm torn between trading the D3 in against a D800 but not sure if I'd miss the speed of the D3, and much as I'd love a D4 I can't justify the cost.

[laurenz]

Was out assisting a buddy last week with his monster of a D800, watching him paging through menu after menu, JEEZUS, so kept making snarky comments as to whether he wanted to borrow my 5D2. Saw the RAW files later on, MEH, resolution just shows up inadequacies of the lenses. Excellent camera, the D800, not for everyone though. 5D2 has made it all round the world with me, think I might be getting attached to a camera again...

[K12beano]

RobDickinson said:

K12beano said:

if you are going to get the best out of it you want quality glass and a good tripod linked with excellent technique.

This is one of the weird things Roger found. Yes to get the best out of it you need the best lenses, but the resolution helps make up for using a poorer lens.

Yup - and that's very interesting.

In my own, very very very unscientific way, I witnessed what happened when I went from D70 to D2x. The D2x was/is notoriously "fussy". You really can see impressive difference between average and good lenses, and this spurred me onto an Ebay frenzy to really get some better glass. Now, the thing is, I always put that down to sensor density on the basis of most commentators' thoughts. Clearly it's not just that, though.


What is exciting/frustrating though? Seeing diffraction in action as you stop down on a D800! "Ye cannae change the laws of Physics, Jim"

Edited by K12beano on Friday 8th February 08:38

[markmullen]

I had to choose between a 5D3 and a D800E when I last changed bodies. I went with the 5D3 and have been very happy, a few things swayed it for me; the investment I already had in lenses which may not apply to you, the high ISO handling of the 5D3 and the faster AF. Whilst I am a landscape photographer I occasionally shoot events, weddings etc where being able to shoot at ISO 6400 and not worry about it makes things a lot easier; reviews when I was choosing put the 5D3 ahead of the D800. The AF side comes in when I go to Le Mans, rallying and watching airshows, I was coming out of 1 series bodies which have superb AF and the 5D3 is even better than they were.

I've been very happy with my choice, I just wish Canon would do a massive resolution body with no AA filter, I'd put the 5D3 into use as my second body and have one to stop me keep pricing up going down the Phase One route.

[Pickled]

markmullen said:

I've been very happy with my choice, I just wish Canon would do a massive resolution body with no AA filter, I'd put the 5D3 into use as my second body and have one to stop me keep pricing up going down the Phase One route.

Hasselblad were doing H4-50 and 80mm lens for £10.5k last year, when I spent the day at the London studio, I was very nearly tempted...

[allen l]

The thing that worries me, because I would need a replacement voor the 5d2 eventually, is not being able switching focussing screens. Love to use the Zeiss lenses.

[laurenz]

markmullen said:

I've been very happy with my choice, I just wish Canon would do a massive resolution body with no AA filter, I'd put the 5D3 into use as my second body and have one to stop me keep pricing up going down the Phase One route.

You can always yank out the AA filter. Personally, I'm not convinced of the benefits on 35mm, my M9 is not better than the 5D2 - and the annoying moir is, well, annoying.

[markmullen]

laurenz said:

You can always yank out the AA filter. Personally, I'm not convinced of the benefits on 35mm, my M9 is not better than the 5D2 - and the annoying moir is, well, annoying.

Capture One Pro that I use is pretty good at getting rid of moire so it is a chance I would willingly take.

[K12beano]

laurenz said:

You can always yank out the AA filter.

I don't think it's a simple as that! Even the D800E has to have a filter over the sensor, it just does something different to the AA one in the D800

[RobDickinson]

There is a company in the US that removes the AA filter from cameras for (I think) less than nikon charge extra for the d800e...

Differences are marginal though and a 36mp sensor (even with the aa filter) is subject to moire too.

AFIK people are changing the 5d3 focus screens but its not an official option and it may throw the metering out.

[MikeGTi]

After reading lots about both cameras I'm still in a quandary! I will concede familiarity to the previous 5D and the fact that the lenses are amazing mind.

But I still feel drawn to the D800- argh!

[laurenz]

K12beano said:

hehe: I don't think it's a simple as that! Even the D800E has to have a filter over the sensor, it just does something different to the AA one in the D800

You're right, I wasn't suggest you yank it out with tweezers - you still need a protector, but people do this all this time for, say astrophotography, infrared photography, and replace the filters with appropriate ones.

[laurenz]

markmullen said:

Capture One Pro that I use is pretty good at getting rid of moire so it is a chance I would willingly take.

Yeah, it's liveable mostly, the only really annoying moire I've found is on buildings in the distance. (And I can't get that out, even with Phocus).

[K12beano]

MikeGTi said:

After reading lots about both cameras I'm still in a quandary! I will concede familiarity to the previous 5D and the fact that the lenses are amazing mind.

But I still feel drawn to the D800- argh!

Try and find someone near you with one - or how about hiring for a weekend and see how you get on? (We used to have "shops" - they were places you could go and handle these things, hard to believe now, I know)