Griffith400/500 Choices.
Discussion
Am possibly considering a Griff.Hope this doesn't open a hornets next as imagine has been discussed before. Just can't find it!! Are early non-serpentine 500's with Rover box best avoided? Am told pre-cat 400's are a very different driving
machine to say 95-on 500's.Tram lining? Some of you guys have experienced both.Share your views?
machine to say 95-on 500's.Tram lining? Some of you guys have experienced both.Share your views?
Have owned both, drove quite a few different ones while looking....
They were, and remain, very individual cars. Even the last ones are a decade old now so a lot of the driving experience from a handling point of view depends on shocks, springs, tyres and setup. Add to that the fact they were handbuilt in the first place, I never really found two to be the same regardless of engine size.
My preference is the precat, engines generally more free revving, the sound is much much better without hassle of decatting, messing around with ecu as a result and the obvous mot worries.
I personally find the Rover gearbox a little nicer than the t5 once its warmed up.
Big caveat on all this - my current car is a bit special, thanks to all the time and money spent on it by the previous owner. That said the comments above hold true when I think back to the less 'developed' examples I test drove.
At this stage the value of both imho is more dependant on condition than variant. Precats are rarer, that might come into play in future but drive as many as you can and buy on condition so long as the less free revving (but undeniably torquier) 5 litre isn't a deal breaker - everything else on a 500 can be upgraded to give the same characteristics of the superior early model
They were, and remain, very individual cars. Even the last ones are a decade old now so a lot of the driving experience from a handling point of view depends on shocks, springs, tyres and setup. Add to that the fact they were handbuilt in the first place, I never really found two to be the same regardless of engine size.
My preference is the precat, engines generally more free revving, the sound is much much better without hassle of decatting, messing around with ecu as a result and the obvous mot worries.
I personally find the Rover gearbox a little nicer than the t5 once its warmed up.
Big caveat on all this - my current car is a bit special, thanks to all the time and money spent on it by the previous owner. That said the comments above hold true when I think back to the less 'developed' examples I test drove.
At this stage the value of both imho is more dependant on condition than variant. Precats are rarer, that might come into play in future but drive as many as you can and buy on condition so long as the less free revving (but undeniably torquier) 5 litre isn't a deal breaker - everything else on a 500 can be upgraded to give the same characteristics of the superior early model
Edited by Doc Toad on Saturday 9th February 19:19
Edited by Doc Toad on Saturday 9th February 20:25
I have a pre serp 500 no power steering dosnt tramline mind its got protech shocks & sh drop links had it 9 yrs was onstandard billies when i got it was a bit of ahandfull
Then but handles ok now they are sensitive to tyres /pressures .toyo T1R and 26 front and rear does it for me .Rover box is fine . Slowly getting mine sorted outriggers and poss
diff refurb next .then next its ceramic coat manifolds maybe a cam and def anew ignition/ecu set up.Can cost a bit but not too bad considering the whole drive and performance
Wouldnt part with mine .
Then but handles ok now they are sensitive to tyres /pressures .toyo T1R and 26 front and rear does it for me .Rover box is fine . Slowly getting mine sorted outriggers and poss
diff refurb next .then next its ceramic coat manifolds maybe a cam and def anew ignition/ecu set up.Can cost a bit but not too bad considering the whole drive and performance
Wouldnt part with mine .
Got a 500 and 430BV and they are very different cars to drive. Both no PAS and no tramlining. The 500 is Mrs FFG's and she drove it daily for 6 years with no problems. There are very similar to 1/4 mile (tried about 20 times against each other) but either is great to drive. Most have now been modded/upgarded and run all sort of different tyres/suspension/dampers/brakes/engine tweeks so is difficult to comment on general driveability.
Recommend getting along to your local TVR meet and try and blag a ride or two. The Growl is 5-7th of July and ther will be about 100 Griffs so a good opportunity to get to talk to owners and get a feel for whether TVR ownership is for you.
FFG
Recommend getting along to your local TVR meet and try and blag a ride or two. The Growl is 5-7th of July and ther will be about 100 Griffs so a good opportunity to get to talk to owners and get a feel for whether TVR ownership is for you.
FFG
I have never driven a 400 so can't comment there. The 500's seem to continue to command a higher price and i think will always be the most valuable.
I was told to avoid pre-serps at all cost due to oil pump problems and the Rover box was not as good or strong as the T5, however I note that one of the threads says they prefer the Rover box.....!
I tried both power and non-power steering cars (I spent a few hours at Fernhurst). The power steering is great when parking but I found that at speed you completely lose feel of the front end, whereas the non-pas cars at parking are a little heavy but not impossible at all (even my wife at 7 1/2 stone drives the Griff) but once you exceed 2 mph then you just don't need it and you get a much better drive.
I now own 2 Griff 500's (don't ask..!), both non-power assisted steering so I must be a fan.
My advice is go and drive a few variants and make up your own mind.
I was told to avoid pre-serps at all cost due to oil pump problems and the Rover box was not as good or strong as the T5, however I note that one of the threads says they prefer the Rover box.....!
I tried both power and non-power steering cars (I spent a few hours at Fernhurst). The power steering is great when parking but I found that at speed you completely lose feel of the front end, whereas the non-pas cars at parking are a little heavy but not impossible at all (even my wife at 7 1/2 stone drives the Griff) but once you exceed 2 mph then you just don't need it and you get a much better drive.
I now own 2 Griff 500's (don't ask..!), both non-power assisted steering so I must be a fan.
My advice is go and drive a few variants and make up your own mind.
Try this thread for the Serp v. pre-Serp. I don't think it is definitive, however it tips to a Serp, however I think it is a case of 'you pays your money' and I have no doubt that a well maintained pre-Serp will almost certainly be fine:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
More:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=121...
There is plenty of opinions on the Serp v. pre-Serp and the Rover v. T5. Do what I did and do a Google search.
General consensus is go for the Serp and T5, but there are plenty of happy owners of the other combination.
General advice is that if you are going for a Griff then don't expect it to survive on an annual service, it will need constant fettling to keep it in good nick. If you don't like getting your hands dirty then don't buy a Griff.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
More:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=121...
There is plenty of opinions on the Serp v. pre-Serp and the Rover v. T5. Do what I did and do a Google search.
General consensus is go for the Serp and T5, but there are plenty of happy owners of the other combination.
General advice is that if you are going for a Griff then don't expect it to survive on an annual service, it will need constant fettling to keep it in good nick. If you don't like getting your hands dirty then don't buy a Griff.
Many thanks guys for all the info. Appreciate driving a number of cars is prob the only way to decide. Have been trying to line up a few cars for viewing etc in UK since Xmas, to make a trip from NI worthwhile. Looking at Griff 400 and 500 and maybe Chim 500(?) Re tram lining 400's and avoiding pre-serp 500's, advice came from well-known Tvr specialist in UK with current large stock, incl both!! Not looking for a concours/showroom princess, ideally a sound chassis/mechanicals. Am well-used to spannering.Car would be kept in North Donegal, where I spend 3wks/mth from North Down (cossers). Pete Mac, I was buying at N500 when you nipped in!!!
It's the tyres that make the car tramline.
As LG said so eloquently, cars with PS do tramline. My daytime hack 320 tramlines like a b
d on the Avons it's shod with but I know when I change to a different make that will disappear.
Low tire tread also exaggerates tram lining, the more tread, the less tram lining and visa versa.
Go for as late a car you can afford, with as big an engine and in the best of condition.
Power steering is a must, drive one with and one without and you'll see what I mean.
Add better, wider tyres and the non PS feels even worse .
As LG said so eloquently, cars with PS do tramline. My daytime hack 320 tramlines like a b
d on the Avons it's shod with but I know when I change to a different make that will disappear.Low tire tread also exaggerates tram lining, the more tread, the less tram lining and visa versa.
Go for as late a car you can afford, with as big an engine and in the best of condition.
Power steering is a must, drive one with and one without and you'll see what I mean.
Add better, wider tyres and the non PS feels even worse .
I think the whole PS/Non-PS just depends on where you park. If you have to do a 10 point turn each time you get it our your garage then get one with PS, if you have a straight run in/out then don't bother. I have a non-PS one and don't have any problems at all with it. I prefer the non-PS as I feel more in control when pushing on. I think PS masks much of the feel the car gives you, the change in weight on the steering in a bend is what is happening to the wheels/tyres. If you can't feel that then how can you feel when the car is about to let go and when you are reaching the limit? Anyhow...the whole PS/non-PS is probably just personal taste and as I said - if you have an easy parking spot or not.
The one thing that does matter though is making sure you put plenty of cash aside to get the car setup after you buy it. When I first bought mine overtaking was a nightmare when crossing the white lines and bumpy, twisty roads at anything above 50mph felt very scary. Now after a small fortune on new suspension, tyres, rack, joints and a proper setup it feels great. The same twisty bends can be taken at silly speeds, single hand on the wheel, nice and relaxed without any fear or unexpected lurches towards the nearest ditch/hedge.
If you test drive a few you will see what I mean about how different they handle and that is probably the best thing to do.
The one thing that does matter though is making sure you put plenty of cash aside to get the car setup after you buy it. When I first bought mine overtaking was a nightmare when crossing the white lines and bumpy, twisty roads at anything above 50mph felt very scary. Now after a small fortune on new suspension, tyres, rack, joints and a proper setup it feels great. The same twisty bends can be taken at silly speeds, single hand on the wheel, nice and relaxed without any fear or unexpected lurches towards the nearest ditch/hedge.
If you test drive a few you will see what I mean about how different they handle and that is probably the best thing to do.
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