Orange Peel

[TROOPER88]

Hi Guys
Having done a fair bit of spraying before I have successfully removed oranged peel in the past with wet sanding.

During the week I sprayed solid white and completed an engine bay and a bonnet. The finish was good, glossy to the touch with orange peel that I knew would remove easy enough.

This morning I completed the rest of the shell which went well apart from a couple of runs that I will attend to and orange peel.

Now what I painted today has far more peel than the areas painted in the week, so much so that you can really feel it to the touch.

Will it definately still sand out?

1500-2000 grit paper and lots of soapy water??

Poor quality picture but hopefully you will get the idea....

Cheers in advance

[TallPaul]

It depends on how much paint is on there- you can flat & polish pretty much any finish as long as the paint is thick enough. If you've got more than 3 good coats you'll probably be fine. Dont get too close to the edges or swages...
Edit to say:
I'm assuming its 2pack from a gun.

Edited by TallPaul on Sunday 10th February 15:40

[TROOPER88]

TallPaul said:

It depends on how much paint is on there- you can flat & polish pretty much any finish as long as the paint is thick enough. If you've got more than 3 good coats you'll probably be fine. Dont get too close to the edges or swages...
Edit to say:
I'm assuming its 2pack from a gun.

Edited by TallPaul on Sunday 10th February 15:40

Hi
Yeah it's 2k solid from a gun.

It has had 3 coats.

I will have a go on one panel tomorrow and see how I go...

[TallPaul]

Start on the worse panel, flat it, then polish it and see how it goes, if its ok then the rest of the car should be much easier.
Orange peel to that extent is usually a sign of poor atomisation, could be paint was too thick, temperatures to cold, wrong gun setup or too low pressure.

[Squiggs]

The thing to ask yourself is why so much more peel than before (to prevent it happening again)?
Gun set up and/or pressure or environmental conditions (panel temp, damp conditions etc, etc) are the most likely cause.

[TROOPER88]

Thanks boys.

Well gun set-up and pressure did not change from when I did a bit in the week so guess environmental conditions.

It was colder this morning...

As long as it sands out I am not concerned. I will update when I give it a go!

[TROOPER88]

Hi Guys
Well not the best news really.

Had a look this morning and there was no way 1200 ish would remove the peel. I took a couple of close up pictures and went to see a friend at the bodyshop.

He puts it down to the cold weather. He said that in the cold the paint will not 'flow' ending up with runs or peel.

He advised me to go over the whole car with 400 then 800 and repaint. When I do so make sure the garage is warm and to do it on a warmer day. He suggested I put some accelerator (rocket) in with the paint.

I returned and had a go with the 400 on the block but to be honest it was still proving very hard so am going to do everything in 240 then 4 and 800. Even with the 240 I am having to go down to the primer in places as the peel is so deep.

It is very annoying and time consuming but can put it down to experience....

Agree with the above??

Cheers

[jimbob82]

If u put rocket into the paint it can't float out so it would make it even more prone to orange peel. What nozzle size r u using? And at what psi "working pressure" is your gun running at? Lots of things come into play when painting and prep is the hardest part. Get it right and u don't even have to polish it. Get it wrong and as u have found your better off starting from scratch.

Not saying its your fault just trying to help. If your using the right nozzle at the correct pressure it should make things a lot easier for you. Even if it is colder than ideal.

[TROOPER88]

jimbob82 said:

If u put rocket into the paint it can't float out so it would make it even more prone to orange peel. What nozzle size r u using? And at what psi "working pressure" is your gun running at? Lots of things come into play when painting and prep is the hardest part. Get it right and u don't even have to polish it. Get it wrong and as u have found your better off starting from scratch.

Not saying its your fault just trying to help. If your using the right nozzle at the correct pressure it should make things a lot easier for you. Even if it is colder than ideal.

Hi
Thanks for the reply.

It is definately not down to the gun set-up or pressure as these have not changed since I sprayed in the week.

The gun is Devilbiss and I have been spraying at circa 40 psi.

It must be down to the cold and the fact the paint did not flow well.

I will continue the hard task of removing all of the orange peel before I attempt to paint again in a good few days.

Next time I will warm the garage before hand and split the job into about 3 parts. This will mean that if there is an issue it will be isolated to just the one section.

Thanks again

[Kidders]

Warm the paint up! Its what I have to do with 2k clear before applications below 15c. Same amount thinner as normal, and some rocket. It tacks off much quicker when warm and the viscosity brings it closer in line with the manufacturers recommendation, so it flows well and doesnt make any difference to the final finish compared to warmer weather/

[TROOPER88]

Will it be OK to use the air sander (with 320) to get rid of the orange peel before final flatting with loads of water and 400-800 before re-painting??

It would make the job a lot easier. I will be sure not to go through the primer.

Thanks in advance

[jimbob82]

if its a DA orbital then you should be fine, just make sure to keep the pad flat against the paint and don't tip the edge of the pad into the paint

[TROOPER88]

jimbob82 said:

if its a DA orbital then you should be fine, just make sure to keep the pad flat against the paint and don't tip the edge of the pad into the paint

Thanks mate
I have just gone round the whole of the shell with the air sander and 320 grit.
It made light work of removing all traces of peel which is great.

I will carry on over the next few days with a block and 400-800 grit before attempting the paint again on the weekend. The forecast is warming up a lot at the end of the week which will help a lot.

I will also warm the garage first and heat the paint in a bucket of water which was kindly suggested above.

Thanks

[kimducati]

TROOPER88 said:

I will also warm the garage first and heat the paint in a bucket of water which was kindly suggested above.

Thanks

If the Mrs isn't about, microwave it for a few seconds - done it with 2k clearcoat in the past and it works a treat!!

Kim

[Squiggs]

You're going to have watch out for the car becoming damp with condensation when you warm your garage. The longer you can warm the garage the warmer the car and the better off you'll be - the best panel temp & air temp for spraying is 20 degs C.

[TROOPER88]

Squiggs said:

You're going to have watch out for the car becoming damp with condensation when you warm your garage. The longer you can warm the garage the warmer the car and the better off you'll be - the best panel temp & air temp for spraying is 20 degs C.

Thanks mate.

The garage, even though is just a garage is a very good one.

I spent time and money on getting the right insulation.

Most of the car has been sanded with the DA so the rest of the week (couple of hours a day) will be wet sandng on the block before another attempt!

I will report back...

Cheers

[Kidders]

How much thinner are you adding? I normally go 10% on a direct gloss. Pour the paint into the pot, use a hairdryer against the pot for a few minutes to safely warm it, you will be surprised at how more fluid this makes the paint.

[TROOPER88]

Kidders said:

How much thinner are you adding? I normally go 10% on a direct gloss. Pour the paint into the pot, use a hairdryer against the pot for a few minutes to safely warm it, you will be surprised at how more fluid this makes the paint.

As you suggest, I have been adding 10-15% thinners.

Next time, tin of paint in a bucket of warm water, stirring often before I need it!

I will update with pictures on the weekend.

Very, very generous of so many to offer guidance and advice.

Thank you

[Kidders]

Reason I suggest heating the paint in the gun , it will cool down quite significantly between decanting from the mixing pot, I normally aim for around 25 c, by the time its through the gun and atomised its probably around 10-15c, which is manageable, just have to watch out for runs.

[TROOPER88]

Hi Guys
As promised here with a couple of pictures of the shell after I re-painted it.

It has been flattened with 1200 and machine polished. I can go over it again in the future with 1500 etc if needed. There is still a small amount of peel which I am happy with.

Thanks again for the advice along the way!

This is the same wing as above:







And the other front wing: