AV receiver-better to go new low model or older high model?

[andrewrob]

I've not looked at home cinema gear for years as my Marantz SR4200 was working fine. Sadly it died the other day so need to replace it with something.
Budget is a maximum of £140/150ish, no current need for 6.1/7.1 (wouldn't really work with the room shape I have), already have speakers and an active sub too.

All that connects into it is an Xbox 360 via optical and a media center PC via coax with pass through for Dolby Digital and DTS used for a mixture of SD/HD TV, music, and HD films.

I'm not sure weather to get an older second hand high spec (in its day) receiver like an Onkyo TX-SR606 or go for a new lower model like a TX-SR313.
Doesn't have to be Onkyo but they were just two models I was looking at.

Any recommendations?

[audidoody]

Richer Sounds. Onkyo or Yamaha.

[kingston12]

I'd go second-hand in this case. The higher models tend to have better amplification whilst the newer models have more bells & whistles.

Since the current HD sound formats have been around for a few years now, you will get them on any receiver that you buy that is less than 3-4 years old. The only things that a new amp would be likely to get you is more HDMI ins/outs and 3D. As you don't appear to need these, I'd go for a higher quality, older model.

[skinny]

i'd go a few years old, denon or yamaha are pretty safe bets. the only thing a new amp will give you is 3D capability (and a warranty), which you don't need.

[andrewrob]

Thanks all. Went for a used Pioneer VSX-1016V.
Just need to resist the urge to upgrade speakers...for now

[MrT8064]

I was about to post a more or less identical thread to this... Only difference is I would like 7.1 - Can anyone recommend a good second hand amp for £150ish, must be good for music as well as gaming/flim!

Thanks people!!

[JimbobVFR]

MrT8064 said:

I was about to post a more or less identical thread to this... Only difference is I would like 7.1 - Can anyone recommend a good second hand amp for £150ish, must be good for music as well as gaming/flim!

Thanks people!!

Just a couple of suggestions at a quick glance. It might be worth putting a wanted ad on AV Forums.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/amplifier-receiver-...
http://www.avforums.com/forums/amplifier-receiver-...

[HiFiHunter]

As you're not using anything that'll take advantage of HDMI and the HD lossless sound format (DolbyHD, DTS-MA), no point going for a new receiver. Go for a super high end older one with no HDMI. Check out the old Sony ES stuff, Primare, Naim AV2, Tag Mclaren, or the big US monsters like Krell, Anthem, Sunfire etc.

Do try to pick one with 5.1 or 7.1 analogue inputs, so you could possibly feed in a HD audio source from a bluray player that has already decoded it. Helps future proof it a bit. Though, there's some real bargains on processors without this, from Meridian, Linn and Cyrus. If more on a budget, old Rotel gear is also good.

If you want to protect you investment even more, go for a processor/preamp and a surround power amp. Then if you did want HDMI in the future, you'd just need to swap in a nice new processor (e.g. Audiolab 8200AP). Will work out a bit more money though.

Doh! Just seen your budget. Check out stuff like the Sony VA555ES on ebay at the moment, probably your best bet.

[MrT8064]

Thanks so much for the replies. One day hopefully i'll have funds to make a truly immense system! I've posted a Wanted ad on AV Forums, so thanks very much for the suggestion.

Does anyone have opinions on Onkyo? They seem pretty cheap for the features they have - is sound quality/build quality compromised?

[JimbobVFR]

MrT8064 said:

Thanks so much for the replies. One day hopefully i'll have funds to make a truly immense system! I've posted a Wanted ad on AV Forums, so thanks very much for the suggestion.

Does anyone have opinions on Onkyo? They seem pretty cheap for the features they have - is sound quality/build quality compromised?

I can't comment on newer Onkyo models but I did try an older 705 when it was new (the first range that had HD audio via HDMI, but not the lowest model in the range) and found it awful, especially for music. Higher models and newer model may be better of course.
I guess the extra features can mean a compromise somewhere, probably in the quality of amplification. I like to think of it as the difference between a really high spec Hyundai for example compared to a basic BMW with a 6 cylinder engine but few options. I know which I'd prefer

[MrT8064]

Thats a nice metaphor. I think I will try and go for an older and originally expensive system.

Is it worth trying to get something with Dolby TrueHD? Speakers I have at the moment are old 350watt eltax terminators, 125w wharfdales (for the centre) and 'picture frame' wharfdale speakers for the rears. Nothing massively high end, but not rubbish either!

[probedb]

It does depend on your requirements. I'm still using an 8(?) year old Denon AVR-2805 which was 1 down from the top of the range. The fact that my BR player has an 8-channel out and the AVR has an 8-channel in means I can get all the new fangled HD audio formats without an upgrade.

My TV also has enough HDMI sockets that I don't need a switcher either

I'd go for an older, higher end one myself. Just think about features/sockets/etc that you're likely to want to have.

[JimbobVFR]

MrT8064 said:

Thats a nice metaphor. I think I will try and go for an older and originally expensive system.

Is it worth trying to get something with Dolby TrueHD? Speakers I have at the moment are old 350watt eltax terminators, 125w wharfdales (for the centre) and 'picture frame' wharfdale speakers for the rears. Nothing massively high end, but not rubbish either!

The answer is very much a depends. I apologise in advance for might very well turn into a rambling post but heres a few thoughts on the issue.

I mentioned trying an Onkyo 705 in my earlier post, at the time I'd just bought a bargain Arcam AVR200 which I still have so was able to compare the 2 side by side. Basically My Arcam sounded better to me decoding the older DD or DTS soundtrack than the Onkyo did with DTD-MA or DD-THD. I was also able to compare the Onkyo doing SD sound versus HD sound and to be fair the HD sound track was better.

Another factor is what format is available on the disc you are playing. The older sound formats can be different bit rates, the higher bit rate the better, less compression. So not all DVDs are the same sound quality wise
DTS-MA and DD-THD work in different ways. DTS-MA has a core DTS track which is the maximum allowed bit-rate for DTS with the extra HD information encoded in a seperate stream. What this means is if you playback a DTS-MA disc through an older system you get the best possible DTS soundtrack you can.

DD-THD has to have a seperate DD track for backwards compatibility, this could be at a relatively low bit rate. Si I prefer discs with DTS-MA sound tracks for this reason.

Anyhow the upshot is that DTS-MA BD sounds fantastic on my Arcam, DD-THD can vary far more, they all sound good but some better than others.

The other factors to bear in mind is that with the right bluray player you can get HD soundtracks by using the 5.1/7.1 analogue inputs with a player that can decode the format to its analogue multichannel outputs. However this isn't always as simple as it seems. Most amps will simply act as a multichannel power amp when doing this. This means that you are relying on the player to handle bass management and crossovers, these options can be quite rudimentary on some players. I did try an early Sony player with analogue outputs and found the lack of options to cause the sound to not be as good compared to my carefully chosen setup using the amps on-board setup. So again my amp decoding DTS sounded better than the player decoding DTS-MA. I'm currently using my PS3 as a player so I have to make do with DTS or DD but don't feel like I'm missing out.

So to summarise if your budget allows an older higher end amp that can do HD audio then yes its worth it. If however getting HD audio means a compromise on quality of amplification I know where my priorities lie.

My father in law is experiencing this dilemma at the moment. He currently has a Yamaha A2, which is an old but high end Yamaha amp, he's thinking about replacing the Yamaha but is really struggling to find something that sounds better without spending a LOT of money. He tried a New Cambridge Audio 650 amp a couple of years ago, which by all accounts is a decent sounding, and particularly suited to music, think the CA was about £600-£700 at the time. He ended up keeping the Yamaha as it was just better.

Again apologies for the brain fart post but hope it helps

[OldSkoolRS]

We've posted similar before JimBob: I did the same with a Denon 2808 (full HD decoding, Audyssey EQ, etc) and a simple but great Arcam AV9. The core DTS via the Arcam sounded better than the 2808 on full DTS MA. When I swopped my Sony BluRay player for an Oppo with built in HD decoding it was even better (though maybe that's cheating since otherwise I wouldn't have needed a £500 player).

[JimbobVFR]

Indeed we have and I'm still jealous of your setup :-)

[OldSkoolRS]

Thanks, but there are plenty on here who could blow my system into the weeds so to speak, but for what it cost I'm really happy with it. Out of maybe 16 separate items only 3 were bought brand new (on deals at that), the rest bought at 1/3rd of new price or less. Depreciation on AV equipment means even the higher end falls into budget eventually and while it still has plenty of life left in it. I've always been an older barge rather than a new budget buyer when it comes to my own money, so it follows with AV.