Engineering Career Progression
Discussion
Hi guys, just wanted to ask a quick question about the career progression after graduating from university with an Mechanical Engineering MEng degree. To give you a bit of background I'm currently in the last year of my degree and just sorted my first job in a defence engineering company on a salary of £24k.
I am however completely clueless about how I will progress through my career and a typical (read average, not for instance the oil sector) salary target in circa 10 years. I understand there will be no universal answer but it would be nice to have an idea. Also I'm not in Engineering for big money (would have been a banker if I wanted that), but again it would be nice to have an idea.
So am I likely to remain as an "Engineer" for a while or will the move into management type work be fairly swift? Would be nice to hear some personal experience about what some of you have done.
Hope the question isn't too vague!
I am however completely clueless about how I will progress through my career and a typical (read average, not for instance the oil sector) salary target in circa 10 years. I understand there will be no universal answer but it would be nice to have an idea. Also I'm not in Engineering for big money (would have been a banker if I wanted that), but again it would be nice to have an idea.
So am I likely to remain as an "Engineer" for a while or will the move into management type work be fairly swift? Would be nice to hear some personal experience about what some of you have done.
Hope the question isn't too vague!
nixon1905 said:
Hi guys, just wanted to ask a quick question about the career progression after graduating from university with an Mechanical Engineering MEng degree. To give you a bit of background I'm currently in the last year of my degree and just sorted my first job in a defence engineering company on a salary of £24k.
I am however completely clueless about how I will progress through my career and a typical (read average, not for instance the oil sector) salary target in circa 10 years. I understand there will be no universal answer but it would be nice to have an idea. Also I'm not in Engineering for big money (would have been a banker if I wanted that), but again it would be nice to have an idea.
So am I likely to remain as an "Engineer" for a while or will the move into management type work be fairly swift? Would be nice to hear some personal experience about what some of you have done.
Hope the question isn't too vague!
This will vary allot dependant on several variables, IME it depends on what you want and what you want to strive for, you ask if you'll move into management type work fairly swiftly-do you want to be a manager? I'd say you'll need at least some experience to even think about managment.I am however completely clueless about how I will progress through my career and a typical (read average, not for instance the oil sector) salary target in circa 10 years. I understand there will be no universal answer but it would be nice to have an idea. Also I'm not in Engineering for big money (would have been a banker if I wanted that), but again it would be nice to have an idea.
So am I likely to remain as an "Engineer" for a while or will the move into management type work be fairly swift? Would be nice to hear some personal experience about what some of you have done.
Hope the question isn't too vague!
I've no desire to be in management, there's more money there but in my organisation it means do nigh on zero engineering. To get more money it has meant developing a neich and becoming an expert in a field. Several people who I work with with engineering backgrounds have moved into project management, seems to be the quickest/easiest route to more £ in our organisation but I wouldn't thank you for it.
Money wise we'd have to take a poll but engineers aren't really all that well paid in the UK unless you're looking at O&G and a few other areas. Bigger money can be had by contracting IME too. I'd say low to mid 30's is a good salary for a reasonably experienced, professional engineer in the UK.
In our place someone with your background would likely end up going into the design dept but it's a good mix of desk and hands on work, I think our grads start on about 27k.
In summary broad question, expect allot of different answers.....
Depends which areas you choose to work in and what you want to do.
If you follow a big grad scheme (JLR, RR etc) then I imagine (from those who I have interviewed that did similar) you will spend a couple of years doing 3-6 month internal placements, where you will gradually start to gain a bit more control and authority, i.e. managing a small bit of a development for a bigger bit of a system / product - your development probably a couple of engineers. At a guess probably being paid mid 20s to low 30s by the end. Following this route is fairly prescriptive in terms of progression IMO, it will happen just takes time.
I graduated in 2010 with an MEng (and a BA!), but joined a product development / technology consultancy. There are some largish tech only companies (Cambridge Consultants, The Technology Partnership etc) those that also do management consulting (PA, Tata (enormous)), plenty that specialise into oil&gas, med tech, defence etc and lots that are a bit smaller. I work for one of the smaller ones (around 50ish staff). You will get thrown in at the deep end on technical work (and everything else), but the advantage is that you can gain much more exposure to any aspect of the business you are interested in: technical work (in a range of areas), project management, business development / sales etc. Generally it will all be encouraged and supported and if you are good at it, encouraged and supported more. Ultimately you get a choice with what you want to do: some people love interacting with clients, selling work, running projects etc, some would rather stick needles in their eyes and just want to do / design clever stuff. A lot of people are somewhere in between.
In consulting, sold work is king and ultimately, those that can consistently bring in revenue will get paid more. Genuine technical experts are rewarded, but not to the same level and it would take a long time (10+ years) to gain the experience and knowledge to be an expert. Salary wise, after 2.5 years I am now paid a little under the higher rate tax threshold (but sell quite a bit of work a year), doing purely technical work I guess it would probably be low-mid £30k's. 10 years in, if you went purely towards the sales / commercial side of the work at a guess you would be on around £70-90k (P&L responsibility for a decent sized bit of the business), and purely technical £40-55k.
BUT! Do what you enjoy and what you find fulfilling, everyone gets paid well enough to enjoy a good lifestyle, enjoying what you do is priceless. Also, where you are in the country will make a difference to how well off you feel - £40k goes a lot further in the NE than in London!
P.s. There is a fairly large demand for UK educated and trained engineers in both Australia and Switzerland after having worked in UK industry for a 5-10 years and the salary rises can be fairly enormous (2-3x). Germany also values engineers and scientists very highly in business (weirdly so!), and my guess is that they, like the US, pay proper engineers better than the UK.
If you follow a big grad scheme (JLR, RR etc) then I imagine (from those who I have interviewed that did similar) you will spend a couple of years doing 3-6 month internal placements, where you will gradually start to gain a bit more control and authority, i.e. managing a small bit of a development for a bigger bit of a system / product - your development probably a couple of engineers. At a guess probably being paid mid 20s to low 30s by the end. Following this route is fairly prescriptive in terms of progression IMO, it will happen just takes time.
I graduated in 2010 with an MEng (and a BA!), but joined a product development / technology consultancy. There are some largish tech only companies (Cambridge Consultants, The Technology Partnership etc) those that also do management consulting (PA, Tata (enormous)), plenty that specialise into oil&gas, med tech, defence etc and lots that are a bit smaller. I work for one of the smaller ones (around 50ish staff). You will get thrown in at the deep end on technical work (and everything else), but the advantage is that you can gain much more exposure to any aspect of the business you are interested in: technical work (in a range of areas), project management, business development / sales etc. Generally it will all be encouraged and supported and if you are good at it, encouraged and supported more. Ultimately you get a choice with what you want to do: some people love interacting with clients, selling work, running projects etc, some would rather stick needles in their eyes and just want to do / design clever stuff. A lot of people are somewhere in between.
In consulting, sold work is king and ultimately, those that can consistently bring in revenue will get paid more. Genuine technical experts are rewarded, but not to the same level and it would take a long time (10+ years) to gain the experience and knowledge to be an expert. Salary wise, after 2.5 years I am now paid a little under the higher rate tax threshold (but sell quite a bit of work a year), doing purely technical work I guess it would probably be low-mid £30k's. 10 years in, if you went purely towards the sales / commercial side of the work at a guess you would be on around £70-90k (P&L responsibility for a decent sized bit of the business), and purely technical £40-55k.
BUT! Do what you enjoy and what you find fulfilling, everyone gets paid well enough to enjoy a good lifestyle, enjoying what you do is priceless. Also, where you are in the country will make a difference to how well off you feel - £40k goes a lot further in the NE than in London!
P.s. There is a fairly large demand for UK educated and trained engineers in both Australia and Switzerland after having worked in UK industry for a 5-10 years and the salary rises can be fairly enormous (2-3x). Germany also values engineers and scientists very highly in business (weirdly so!), and my guess is that they, like the US, pay proper engineers better than the UK.
I did the RR training scheme and had sponsorship from them at university. Worked for them for 12 years and now work for a drive train consultancy. The wages are better and I now get involved in actual engineering unlike at RR. Personally I'd use a grad scheme for experience and to get chartered and then else where for the next move.
boy said: I did the RR training scheme and had sponsorship from them at university. Worked for them for 12 years and now work for a drive train consultancy. The wages are better and I now get involved in actual engineering unlike at RR. Personally I'd use a grad scheme for experience and to get chartered and then else where for the next move.
Genuine question - how did you cope with the move from RR to your current place if you hadn't done "actual engineering" before?Having worked at a number of small companies where often I have had to scheme, design, purchase and assemble my work I don't understand an environment where and engineer can start their career and spend a number of years in an organisation without having done engineering work. What did your work involve at RR?
egomeister said:
Genuine question - how did you cope with the move from RR to your current place if you hadn't done "actual engineering" before?
Having worked at a number of small companies where often I have had to scheme, design, purchase and assemble my work I don't understand an environment where and engineer can start their career and spend a number of years in an organisation without having done engineering work. What did your work involve at RR?
Obviously at RR I did do engineering, however if you want to make a decision on stress for example you have to speak with a stress guy and you have limited decision making and thus gets rather tedious. Same goes for materials performance etc etc when I worked in large engine development. Having worked at a number of small companies where often I have had to scheme, design, purchase and assemble my work I don't understand an environment where and engineer can start their career and spend a number of years in an organisation without having done engineering work. What did your work involve at RR?
boy said: I did the RR training scheme and had sponsorship from them at university. Worked for them for 12 years and now work for a drive train consultancy. The wages are better and I now get involved in actual engineering unlike at RR. Personally I'd use a grad scheme for experience and to get chartered and then else where for the next move.
Indeed. Get Chartered.
Keep up to date.
boy said: Obviously at RR I did do engineering, however if you want to make a decision on stress for example you have to speak with a stress guy and you have limited decision making and thus gets rather tedious. Same goes for materials performance etc etc when I worked in large engine development.
Ah, thats not so bad then. I guess working in a big organisation with different departments there is some sense to work that way.I know some people I went to uni with moved straight into roles where they effectively liaised between an OEM and a tier one supplier, and hence were only involved in managing the engineering rather than doing it. I think it would be very difficult to move back towards a hands on role after a few years in that scenario.
It really depends on you whether you move into management early, or at all.
I graduated with an MEng 9 years ago and started on approx £22k on an energy companies graduate scheme. I have slowly moved into project management (mainly gas related) after being a project mechanical engineer for the last 6 yrs. If it helps, I currently earn approx £45k and expect my next role to be a full project manager on 10% ish more than that.
I have stayed living in the same place though (midlands, which is hardly a hot bed of oil/gas activity). You can earn a lot more if you are willing to move around (offshore/middle east etc).
I graduated with an MEng 9 years ago and started on approx £22k on an energy companies graduate scheme. I have slowly moved into project management (mainly gas related) after being a project mechanical engineer for the last 6 yrs. If it helps, I currently earn approx £45k and expect my next role to be a full project manager on 10% ish more than that.
I have stayed living in the same place though (midlands, which is hardly a hot bed of oil/gas activity). You can earn a lot more if you are willing to move around (offshore/middle east etc).
New POD said:
Indeed.
Get Chartered.
Keep up to date.
At the end of this year I'll be in a position to apply for chartered status and plan to do so, for no other reason really than it has always been the "next goal" so probably worth aiming for. In your experience, bearing in mind the not so insignificant fees, is it still worth doing? What've you found to be the main career advantages or is it more about personal satisfaction??Get Chartered.
Keep up to date.
I can only echo what most have said. Sticking at engineering within the UK will never make you rich in one of the big companies. That said, having R-R or BAES on your CV does help open a lot of doors.
Your best bet is to get your Chatership - and do all the courses - on a grad training scheme and then leave the fur-lined rut and set up on your own or join a smaller more dynamic company.
It's shame, but IME, most of the big eng companies favour PM for career progression rather than technical disciplines. When I was at R-R I was STRONGLY advised to move out of my tech discipline into a PM role as typically you stop at Chief Eng. I was already at Principal so only had one jump left, and I was waiting for dead men's shoes; AFAIK this is similar across most companies.
Having said all that, the PM function can be very rewarding because you get to pontificate at a conceptual level and some other bugger (specialist) is left to work out the detail. I guess it depends on what personality type you are
Your best bet is to get your Chatership - and do all the courses - on a grad training scheme and then leave the fur-lined rut and set up on your own or join a smaller more dynamic company.
It's shame, but IME, most of the big eng companies favour PM for career progression rather than technical disciplines. When I was at R-R I was STRONGLY advised to move out of my tech discipline into a PM role as typically you stop at Chief Eng. I was already at Principal so only had one jump left, and I was waiting for dead men's shoes; AFAIK this is similar across most companies.
Having said all that, the PM function can be very rewarding because you get to pontificate at a conceptual level and some other bugger (specialist) is left to work out the detail. I guess it depends on what personality type you are
Ian Lancs said:
Is being Chartered all that it's cracked up to be? My company encourage you to get Chartered (esp. for management roles) but to the "bog standard" engineer it doesn't seem to make any difference. Just curious about other company experiences
At RR it was a requirement for Principal grade - although that requirement could be bent in some circumstances as I'm not chartered. Most of the big companies have a similar requirement, although it's often worded something like 'meets the requirements for chartership status'.
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