Modern 911's are more GT than sports car, Tip?
Discussion
Driving my barge of an A6 to work today I was having a think about how I liked the quiet, like not bothering with gears, like the heated seats, good stereo etc. I have an up rated mk3 MR2 as a noisy light weight sports car so that aspect of driving is covered. I'm beginning to think I want something between the two a more GT type car, maybe I shouldn't avoid Tiptronics? What do those with them think? Work well as some autos do or all a but awkward? Maybe a really well spec'd 996 full of toys, although far from what the 911 used to be but it may just actually be rather nice?
I think if you got yourself into a 991 PDK it wouldn't be that different to the Audi on a day to day basis, obviously there is access to quite amazing performance and speed but other than that you would feel quite at home.
This might well fit the bill quite nicely but seems like a huge cost to feel the same, still a nice place to be though.
This might well fit the bill quite nicely but seems like a huge cost to feel the same, still a nice place to be though.
Steviesam said:
May I ask why?
Is it the looks or handling, or something else?
Thanks
I went through this a few months ago: Like the OP, I've got a no-brainer car for general use, auto with all the toys and a very fine thing it is. But wanted something I could both use for classic long distance GT work AND really engage with as a sports car, with all the feel and feedback that implies, as well as the need to actually learn how to drive it properly. And that's where I found the difference to lie: on the GT spectrum, had I wanted the ballistic cruiser end of things, I'd have gone for a Gran Turismo; likewise the Vantage S was just a bit lacking in that essential feedback; the Cayman is brilliant but almost too easy to drive fast and, only IMHO, much less of a GT - too noisy inside for a start. Which is how I ended up with a manual 997 - really easy to drive but takes time and real commitment to learn how to drive it properly, amazing feedback (I actually found myself driving more slowly than in our other cars, simply because I had to recalibrate the amount of sensory input I was getting) and a feel that is very different from the cars-as-appliance that most now are. They are very, very good appliances but share so much in common that, at normal road speeds, most feel very much the same - differences are a matter of degree, not kind. Which for me rather defeats the object of the exercise. Is it the looks or handling, or something else?
Thanks
Edited by Technomad on Thursday 14th February 13:15
Steviesam said:
May I ask why?
Is it the looks or handling, or something else?
Thanks
In short I do not need rear seats and acceleration is enough for me. I do not want to fill this thread with cayman talk so use search or read and ask here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Is it the looks or handling, or something else?
Thanks
But the Tip box, does it ruin the experience or just make it a better GT car? I've driven 996 BoxsterS manual, 993 C2 manual & a 996 C4 manual. Never a tip and as people except new buyers seem to avoid tip's they give a wider choice of cars on the 2nd hand market and as I'm not buying a bounce off the redline track day car, rather a euro road trip joined with occasional boring commute car maybe a tip box is a good thing?
I am determined to buy the right car for me and so begin to think I should consider dropping the 'it must be manual' thoughts, 3000miles round Europe in a week with Mrs in passenger seat do I choose Audi or MR2 at present - Audi. If I go on a track day Audi or MR2 - MR2.
Cars for purpose and all that.. ?
I am determined to buy the right car for me and so begin to think I should consider dropping the 'it must be manual' thoughts, 3000miles round Europe in a week with Mrs in passenger seat do I choose Audi or MR2 at present - Audi. If I go on a track day Audi or MR2 - MR2.
Cars for purpose and all that.. ?
Herman Toothrot said:
But the Tip box, does it ruin the experience or just make it a better GT car?
I think you'll have to try it - depends what you expect from it.A couple of years ago, I had a Boxster S for a weekend which was tip. I loathed it - absolutely dreadful. Based on that, I would never have a 911 tip (even though I agree with the general principle that 911s are more GT than sports these days). Note that I did quite a lot of miles that weekend, but mostly in "GT" mode - i.e. a lot of motorways.
On the other hand. I bought a Cayenne last month, which is only available as tip - and for that car it works very well.
My C4S is a Tip and although of course I would of preferred a PDK funds would not allow. There are a lot of naysayers ref the Tip but I dont mind it. If you want the "GT" aspect then yes the Tip will give you that relaxed driving mode but if you want to play around then tip the buttons! Stick PSE on it, put your window down and find the nearest tunnel and you wont be bothered how the thing changes gear!!
davek_964 said:
I think you'll have to try it - depends what you expect from it.
A couple of years ago, I had a Boxster S for a weekend which was tip. I loathed it - absolutely dreadful. Based on that, I would never have a 911 tip (even though I agree with the general principle that 911s are more GT than sports these days). Note that I did quite a lot of miles that weekend, but mostly in "GT" mode - i.e. a lot of motorways.
On the other hand. I bought a Cayenne last month, which is only available as tip - and for that car it works very well.
Interesting, where it should have shone you loathed it.. that doesn't bode well. Will have to take one for a drive I think.A couple of years ago, I had a Boxster S for a weekend which was tip. I loathed it - absolutely dreadful. Based on that, I would never have a 911 tip (even though I agree with the general principle that 911s are more GT than sports these days). Note that I did quite a lot of miles that weekend, but mostly in "GT" mode - i.e. a lot of motorways.
On the other hand. I bought a Cayenne last month, which is only available as tip - and for that car it works very well.
i had a manual 997 C2S for about 4 years and loved it. i had to give up on manuals because of back problems and sold the car. 2 months later i was pining for another one so test drove a couple of 997 C2S tips and was quite disappointed. they just weren't as responsive as my previous manual car. I now have a 997 Turbo tip. having more power definitely helps, but that's cause the car is fast whatever gear you're in rather than the 'box selecting the gear you want.
bottom line is that i'd have got a manual if i could. PDK turbo was out of my price range and i didn't want a non-turbo gen 2 car.
Cal on here has had a 996 and 997 tip and loves them. I've been told there's a knack to driving them, but i still haven't got the hang of it.
bottom line is that i'd have got a manual if i could. PDK turbo was out of my price range and i didn't want a non-turbo gen 2 car.
Cal on here has had a 996 and 997 tip and loves them. I've been told there's a knack to driving them, but i still haven't got the hang of it.
Herman Toothrot said:
Driving my barge of an A6 to work today I was having a think about how I liked the quiet, like not bothering with gears, like the heated seats, good stereo etc. I have an up rated mk3 MR2 as a noisy light weight sports car so that aspect of driving is covered. I'm beginning to think I want something between the two a more GT type car, maybe I shouldn't avoid Tiptronics? What do those with them think? Work well as some autos do or all a but awkward? Maybe a really well spec'd 996 full of toys, although far from what the 911 used to be but it may just actually be rather nice?
I'm going to have to disagree a bit. It has come to my be opinion modern Porsches make lousy GT cars for one simple reason. The tires.I run a Boxster and a Turbo as DD's alternating between them and I'm careful avoiding areas which are at risk of having sharp objects on the road, but I've just had to replace another set of rear tires on the Turbo due to a nail in the right rear tire. The tires were just replaced last July again because one tire (the right rear) picked up a screw.
While the tires in July had 23K miles on them they still had life left. In fact so much so the right rear was covered by road hazard coverage and replaced for free.
This time the company initially balked at replacing the same tire again but did finally agree. Still I had to spend $500 to buy a new left rear tire that had 5mm of tread left.
The flat came just as I was rushing out from work to dash home to get my mom and dad to a doctor's appointment. I've got enough drama/excitement in my life already without having to play Russian Roulette with my car tires.
Also, the Boxster got new tires not too long ago due to a nail in a tire.
My next GT will be a car that has the same size wheels/tires at all 4 corners and either a full size spare or room in the trunk/cargo area for a full size spare balanced and ready to go.
Based on the cars I've run over the years, the best GT was my 02 VW Golf TDi. Good cruising speed (110mph+ even in the high mountains of the western USA), and good range on a tank of fuel (44mpg average over 120K+ miles) and 15" tires/wheels for a nice ride even on crappy roads and a full sized spare tire that fit under the cargo area floor. Nice. Very nice. That's a GT.
Modern Porsches? Boulevard cruisers. I dare not get anywhere out of cell phone coverage with mine anymore. I cringe when I have to venture off the freeway even to a gas station to fill up the gas tank.
we arent that far away in terms of situation Mr HT. Octavia Vrs tdi as dd, mk3 MR2 roadster with SP Turbo and lots of other stuff to take care of that end of the spectrum. For the middle ground ( :-) ) i have a 996 tt MANUAL. I wouldnt care too much for the auto as I am not doing enough miles / traffic to bother about that. someone once advised me that the Tips are less costly to run because of the cost of clutch repairs....as I say, someone told me.
Go for the manual!
Go for the manual!
Something along the lines as follows....if after a bit of spirited driving and engine/water temp gets high and come to stop like traffic lights and then cane it away from lights it can cause bore scoring in the right hand bank of cylinders. This is more prelevant in a Tip as in Auto it pulls away in 2nd. Due to the engine needing more torque to pull away in a higher gear and the possibility of water "boiling away" due to the weak design of certain cylinder walls scoring of the bore walls can occur. So a worse case would be a country road blast, coming to a junction on a hill, joining a busy mainroad. With the water flow from the radiators now moving very slowly at idle there is severe heat soak at the cylinder wall. A break in the traffic and you use the excellent torque of Porsches finest 3.6, in 2nd and boot it.....its then that damage "could" occur.
Baz, I hope I got my laymans description right!
Baz, I hope I got my laymans description right!
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