Guess the ship - with a difference.
Discussion
Hi all,
Had a bit of a clear out and I found an old A3 photocopy of a 1982 Falklands chart with annotations dates and positions marked for Naval Gunfire Support etc.
I'm a bit of a Falklands geek but this one has me stumped - it turned up in the post several years ago when I was writing a Falklands timeline for the Royal Naval Association - www.rna-10-area.net/falklands.html
Here's the chart - sorry for the quality - http://www.rna-10-area.net/images/map-hi-res.PDF (10Mb .pdf)
All I got in the envelope was a short note - "Hope this is of interest"
So dates, positions how difficult can it be?
SD
Had a bit of a clear out and I found an old A3 photocopy of a 1982 Falklands chart with annotations dates and positions marked for Naval Gunfire Support etc.
I'm a bit of a Falklands geek but this one has me stumped - it turned up in the post several years ago when I was writing a Falklands timeline for the Royal Naval Association - www.rna-10-area.net/falklands.html
Here's the chart - sorry for the quality - http://www.rna-10-area.net/images/map-hi-res.PDF (10Mb .pdf)
All I got in the envelope was a short note - "Hope this is of interest"
So dates, positions how difficult can it be?
SD
shed driver said:
Yes, from the dates and positions given it should be possible to cross reference the known positions of ships at that time. I'm only asking because I'd like to know which ship the chart pertains to.
SD.
Are you sure it is for a ship? Most of the markings are on the coast and don't appear to make sense as dates either.SD.
For example, the 'NGS' pointing to the Hornby Mountains on West Falkland doesn't seem to fit either. the only report of naval gun attacks on West Falklands I can find is an argentine account from June, which is linked to the skirmish between an SAS patrol and Argentine forces at Many Branch Point. But the markings on the map appear to be too far south for this. No mention of which ships took part though.
Still not convinced it represents any single ship or that the numbers can be interpreted as dates.
As you probably know, nearly all of the escorts carried out NGS operations at one point or another (Bristol and the Leanders being the main exceptions). Most ships did at least one stint on the gunlines around Stanley. Without ships logs/report of proceedings (which haven't been digitised by the National Archives), there is little confirmed information. Internet accounts sometimes only record that NGS was carried out but not where. Other accounts give conflicting locations/targets. It's highly likely that some NGS operations have been missed out as it was more or less a nightly occurrence throughout the conflict but no NGS is listed for some nights.
The most useful clue is the NGS aimed at West Falkland as only a couple of ships are recorded doing so:
ARROW 05 June
EXETER 11 June
ALACRITY is a possibility during her investigations of Falkland Sound before the landings. BRILLIANT also reportedly carried out reconnaissance of Argentine positions early in the war. But no confirmed accounts of NGS against West Falkland for either.
These ships can be cross-referenced to the other clear NGS position in Grantham Sound. EXETER seems less likely - no information available and one of the issues is that the Type 42s may or may not have carried out NGS while acting as Fighter Controller to cover San Carlos. The more likely bet is ARROW who covered the 2 PARA attack on Goose Green from a position in and around Grantham Sound. However, it looks there is a line pointing East rather than South East. The position is somewhat exposed - it was where ARDENT was isolated and attacked on D-day. Most of the escorts supporting the landings were further north around San Carlos Bay.
Can't make out the other markings (SW tip of West Falkland, outside San Carlos, south of Stanley). Mount Kent is circled. The only records I can find of specific ships targeting Mount Kent are AVENGER and possibly ALACRITY on 30 May. To top it all of CARDIFF was sent to Port Howard to take the surrender there on 14 June, which would fit with the "14" annotation - the only problem is that none of the other annotations seem to fit!
Could try asking on somewhere like Key Publishing.
As you probably know, nearly all of the escorts carried out NGS operations at one point or another (Bristol and the Leanders being the main exceptions). Most ships did at least one stint on the gunlines around Stanley. Without ships logs/report of proceedings (which haven't been digitised by the National Archives), there is little confirmed information. Internet accounts sometimes only record that NGS was carried out but not where. Other accounts give conflicting locations/targets. It's highly likely that some NGS operations have been missed out as it was more or less a nightly occurrence throughout the conflict but no NGS is listed for some nights.
The most useful clue is the NGS aimed at West Falkland as only a couple of ships are recorded doing so:
ARROW 05 June
EXETER 11 June
ALACRITY is a possibility during her investigations of Falkland Sound before the landings. BRILLIANT also reportedly carried out reconnaissance of Argentine positions early in the war. But no confirmed accounts of NGS against West Falkland for either.
These ships can be cross-referenced to the other clear NGS position in Grantham Sound. EXETER seems less likely - no information available and one of the issues is that the Type 42s may or may not have carried out NGS while acting as Fighter Controller to cover San Carlos. The more likely bet is ARROW who covered the 2 PARA attack on Goose Green from a position in and around Grantham Sound. However, it looks there is a line pointing East rather than South East. The position is somewhat exposed - it was where ARDENT was isolated and attacked on D-day. Most of the escorts supporting the landings were further north around San Carlos Bay.
Can't make out the other markings (SW tip of West Falkland, outside San Carlos, south of Stanley). Mount Kent is circled. The only records I can find of specific ships targeting Mount Kent are AVENGER and possibly ALACRITY on 30 May. To top it all of CARDIFF was sent to Port Howard to take the surrender there on 14 June, which would fit with the "14" annotation - the only problem is that none of the other annotations seem to fit!
Could try asking on somewhere like Key Publishing.
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