Is only the top of the range good enough?
Discussion
You've decided to buy a new car. (new to you; in actuality secondhand)
You do some research, start a 'what car' thread on PH, bore all your mates in the pub and colleagues at work stupid with your inance umming and ahring. And then you decide.
With your mission clear, you start to pursue your chosen car. Without a directorship, you've almost certainly got a budget too. But... will anything other than the top of the range do?
A week or so back, LadyV8 and I crawled all over a Z4 3.0 at a local used ar dealership. Lovely thing.
Came home, and... I couldn't help wondering that even though Parkers Facts & Figures wowed me with information such as a 5.7 seconmd 0-60 time, would I buy it and then wish that I'd bought the Z4M?
So I searched for Z4Ms and, of course, those pretty litle coupes turned up in the serach results. So I wondered whether I wouldn't actually be better to buy the Z4MC. Because that was the car I really wanted, right? But I'd doubled the budget in the process. So didn't buy anything.
Does everyone go through that process of constantly moving (and trying to justify that moving) up the model range? When you buy a car brand new, there's (usually) a big financial gap between top and bottom of the range, but this diminishes a fair bit once cars are a few years old. So will only the top of the range do?
You do some research, start a 'what car' thread on PH, bore all your mates in the pub and colleagues at work stupid with your inance umming and ahring. And then you decide.
With your mission clear, you start to pursue your chosen car. Without a directorship, you've almost certainly got a budget too. But... will anything other than the top of the range do?
A week or so back, LadyV8 and I crawled all over a Z4 3.0 at a local used ar dealership. Lovely thing.
Came home, and... I couldn't help wondering that even though Parkers Facts & Figures wowed me with information such as a 5.7 seconmd 0-60 time, would I buy it and then wish that I'd bought the Z4M?
So I searched for Z4Ms and, of course, those pretty litle coupes turned up in the serach results. So I wondered whether I wouldn't actually be better to buy the Z4MC. Because that was the car I really wanted, right? But I'd doubled the budget in the process. So didn't buy anything.
Does everyone go through that process of constantly moving (and trying to justify that moving) up the model range? When you buy a car brand new, there's (usually) a big financial gap between top and bottom of the range, but this diminishes a fair bit once cars are a few years old. So will only the top of the range do?
This was oh so true in the Porsche forum...
monthefish said:
Prepare to do the 996 'upgrade walk' which goes something like this:
"C2 would be nice, and aren't they good value for money these days at under 15k. I can easily afford that - some people spend the same money on a new Mondeo"
...
...
"Hmmm, facelift C2's just over 18k - I think it's worth spending that little bit extra just to get the newer look"
...
...
"Hang on a tick - C4S's, with their beautiful wide hips, seem to start around the £20k mark - that's only about £2k more than I was about to spend on a boring C2. Surely I can just find another couple of grand. I'll live on beans on toast for a month or two if I have to"
....
....
"Bloody hell - a Turbo for £25k? Can't really say no to that, can I? The ultimate 911. Makes sense to spend just a smidge more to get into the all-weather supercar, even if it is a green tip with savanna"
...
...
"911 Turbo - it'll definitely be a keeper - so I might as well spend a few thousand more and get the spec I really want."
...
...
...
"Balls - I can't really justify spending over £30k on a car when I'm supposed to be growing my own company. I'll just stick with what I have just now"
...
....and before you know it, you've talked yourself out of it.
"C2 would be nice, and aren't they good value for money these days at under 15k. I can easily afford that - some people spend the same money on a new Mondeo"
...
...
"Hmmm, facelift C2's just over 18k - I think it's worth spending that little bit extra just to get the newer look"
...
...
"Hang on a tick - C4S's, with their beautiful wide hips, seem to start around the £20k mark - that's only about £2k more than I was about to spend on a boring C2. Surely I can just find another couple of grand. I'll live on beans on toast for a month or two if I have to"
....
....
"Bloody hell - a Turbo for £25k? Can't really say no to that, can I? The ultimate 911. Makes sense to spend just a smidge more to get into the all-weather supercar, even if it is a green tip with savanna"
...
...
"911 Turbo - it'll definitely be a keeper - so I might as well spend a few thousand more and get the spec I really want."
...
...
...
"Balls - I can't really justify spending over £30k on a car when I'm supposed to be growing my own company. I'll just stick with what I have just now"
...
....and before you know it, you've talked yourself out of it.
V8mate said:
Does everyone go through that process of constantly moving (and trying to justify that moving) up the model range? When you buy a car brand new, there's (usually) a big financial gap between top and bottom of the range, but this diminishes a fair bit once cars are a few years old. So will only the top of the range do?
I suspect I'm in the minority on PH, but I'm usually happy with the bottom of the range. If I was (for example) considering a 3-series with a decent spec and engine, I'd be thinking in the back of my mind "hang on, I could get a 5-series for this money".In my head, I see it as better value for money. I'm pretty sure that BMW makes more profit on a £30k 1-series than it does on a £30k 5-series. I think the depreciation curve is also steeper on a high spec small car than it is on a comparably priced low spec big car.
Edited by excel monkey on Friday 15th February 10:53
excel monkey said:
I suspect I'm in the minority on PH, but I'm usually happy with the bottom of the range. If I was (for example) considering a 3-series with a decent spec and engine, I'd be thinking in the back of my mind "hang on, I could get a 5-series for this money".
In my head, I see it as better value for money. I'm pretty sure that BMW makes more profit on a £30k 1-series than it does on a £30k 5-series. I think the depreciation curve is also steeper on a high spec small car than it is on a comparably priced low spec big car.
That may be bottom of the 5-series range but you'll have stepped UP the BMW range. So you're a bit half and half. I guess maximising value for money is your inner aim.In my head, I see it as better value for money. I'm pretty sure that BMW makes more profit on a £30k 1-series than it does on a £30k 5-series. I think the depreciation curve is also steeper on a high spec small car than it is on a comparably priced low spec big car.
V8mate said:
Bear Phils said:
By the way, there is a BIG running costs difference between the 3.0 and M models
I wouldn't even consider factoring that into the equation until the car was sitting on my drive 
Of course, then I got a Z4MC and realised I preferred the e46 M3... It's more comfortable, more practical, etc etc. Again, you will too.
So just save yourself the journey and buy an M3 instead.
V8mate said:
Came home, and... I couldn't help wondering that even though Parkers Facts & Figures wowed me with information such as a 5.7 seconmd 0-60 time, would I buy it and then wish that I'd bought the Z4M?
I asked a very similar question to myself (and others here) a few weeks ago in relation to wanting a BMW 3-series coupe (E92). The 335i was such a stretch, whereas the 330i would involve much less financial pain. But would I buy the 330i and constantly wish in the back of my mind that it was the 335i with it's turbocharged meaty, torquey shove?The answer was yes, so I decided to take the pain and get a 335i.
Although for me it wasn't a status, must-have-top-of-the-range thing (otherwise only an M3 would do), it was more about the technical merits of a 330i vs a 335i - namely the significant difference in torque for overtaking and driveability, the option of a DCT 'box rather than a conventional 6-spd auto, etc.
Gruber said:
I bought a 3.0 Z4C brand new back in 2006. Great car. Loved it. But after 6 months I wanted the M. You will too.
Of course, then I got a Z4MC and realised I preferred the e46 M3... It's more comfortable, more practical, etc etc. Again, you will too.
So just save yourself the journey and buy an M3 instead.
Interesting, I now have an E46 M3 and while it's a much more convenient car, I still miss my old 3.0 Z4. Ideally I'd have both. Each with the M3 engine. Goes to browse the classifieds.Of course, then I got a Z4MC and realised I preferred the e46 M3... It's more comfortable, more practical, etc etc. Again, you will too.
So just save yourself the journey and buy an M3 instead.
toasty said:
nteresting, I now have an E46 M3 and while it's a much more convenient car, I still miss my old 3.0 Z4. Ideally I'd have both. Each with the M3 engine. Goes to browse the classifieds.
And therein lies problem - the very essence of V8mate's OP... We're just never satisfied with our lot! Did this exact thing myself.
Realised it was about time to upgrade the 106 GTi after seven years. Note I said upgrade and not change – I love that little car!
I’ve got the house situation covered and have saved a bit. Here’s my train of thought
“So... car. But what? Hmm. I’ve got the fun car (106), I want something quick that I can use every day… what can I get… E92 M3. Sounds good. Wait a minute, they’re depreciating quickly, do I really want to lose a lot of cash on an 'alright' (in my opinion) car or should I use my head and buy something that’s likely to hold its value?
Definitely better to spend more and buy something that will not drop like a stone… I’ll buy a 1M. It’s about 10k more than I wanted to spend but it’ll probably lose me less money. 1M it is.
Hang on, hang on… If I’m going to spend £40k, why am I not considering Porsches? They can be used every day, they’re quick … <quick autotrader search> … 2006 997 Turbo for £40k? Done and done. I’ll get one of those…
Not so fast, I thought you were worried about depreciation? If you’re going to buy a turbo you should wait until the 991 comes out and let the 997 take a knock. Ok I’ll do that.
Slowly time passes and I begin to research the turbo. I’ve driven some quick stuff but never a turbo … plus at my age and turning up in a 106 it’d be a ballache to convince a dealer to let me take one out. So I won’t bother until I’m deadly serious about buying it. Either way, lets look at specs.
Well, if I’m spending that cash, I will get exactly what I want… carbon ceramic brakes, sports seats, black, generation 1… then it got more specific… 2009 model because that’s got the iphone Bluetooth kit and is the newest of the gen 1…
s
t this is now a £55k spend. Oh well, it’s ok… after depreciation hit over the course of the year I’ll wait and then the additional hit from the new turbo I reckon it’ll be £45k-£50k for that. fk it. I can stretch to that.
November passes… December passes… January passes
A friend and I hatch a plan to break away and start our own business… I spend £6.8k on a number plate… cannot justify £50k on a car if I’m beginning out in business…"
Talked myself out of it. Damn!
Realised it was about time to upgrade the 106 GTi after seven years. Note I said upgrade and not change – I love that little car!
I’ve got the house situation covered and have saved a bit. Here’s my train of thought
“So... car. But what? Hmm. I’ve got the fun car (106), I want something quick that I can use every day… what can I get… E92 M3. Sounds good. Wait a minute, they’re depreciating quickly, do I really want to lose a lot of cash on an 'alright' (in my opinion) car or should I use my head and buy something that’s likely to hold its value?
Definitely better to spend more and buy something that will not drop like a stone… I’ll buy a 1M. It’s about 10k more than I wanted to spend but it’ll probably lose me less money. 1M it is.
Hang on, hang on… If I’m going to spend £40k, why am I not considering Porsches? They can be used every day, they’re quick … <quick autotrader search> … 2006 997 Turbo for £40k? Done and done. I’ll get one of those…
Not so fast, I thought you were worried about depreciation? If you’re going to buy a turbo you should wait until the 991 comes out and let the 997 take a knock. Ok I’ll do that.
Slowly time passes and I begin to research the turbo. I’ve driven some quick stuff but never a turbo … plus at my age and turning up in a 106 it’d be a ballache to convince a dealer to let me take one out. So I won’t bother until I’m deadly serious about buying it. Either way, lets look at specs.
Well, if I’m spending that cash, I will get exactly what I want… carbon ceramic brakes, sports seats, black, generation 1… then it got more specific… 2009 model because that’s got the iphone Bluetooth kit and is the newest of the gen 1…
s
t this is now a £55k spend. Oh well, it’s ok… after depreciation hit over the course of the year I’ll wait and then the additional hit from the new turbo I reckon it’ll be £45k-£50k for that. fk it. I can stretch to that.November passes… December passes… January passes
A friend and I hatch a plan to break away and start our own business… I spend £6.8k on a number plate… cannot justify £50k on a car if I’m beginning out in business…"
Talked myself out of it. Damn!
Edited by Freddy88FM on Friday 15th February 11:38
V8mate said:
So will only the top of the range do?
This depends on what the vehicle is for and why you are buying it. At least for me it does.e.g. my smart Roadster is a basic model - I wanted this because it's lighter than a fully loaded one.
I didn't want AC because the pipes crack, but also AC adds weight and saps power. And I see little to no point in AC in a rag top sports car, if it's warm enough for AC then the roof comes off.
I also didn't want leather as it's less grippy than cloth. And if you have the roof off and wearing shorts leather seats get hot when parked or sticky when sitting in them.
I've ponder a budget 996 purchase and again I'd want the basic base model. Keep it simple, less weight, less to go wrong.
On a lesser scale, i wanted a cheap runaround and was looking at 2002/3 Fiestas but they seemed rather randonmly and cheaply maintained (4 different tyres, single dampers replaced, you know the sort of thing) so i began looking at facelift cars and then the Zetec S and finally the ST.
It wasn't particularly a case of only the top of the range would do because what I wanted was a metallic sunset orange one which the ST doesn't get. My motivation was that the STs seemed more cherished and better looked after and ultimately the price difference was not that great. No doubt though that now I have an ST, I'm very glad i did as I like a little bit more power, love the Performance Blue and I doubt the insurance was that much more.
I did buy a C5 Z06 because it was the only variant with 405hp so was a worthwhile boost over the 350hp standard car.
With the Mustang, I specifically didn't want a GT500 which looked better but was so much heavier and lardier that the handling suffered but it did mean I had to buy a GT and modify it to exceed the GT500's power/weight advantage which I still wanted.
It wasn't particularly a case of only the top of the range would do because what I wanted was a metallic sunset orange one which the ST doesn't get. My motivation was that the STs seemed more cherished and better looked after and ultimately the price difference was not that great. No doubt though that now I have an ST, I'm very glad i did as I like a little bit more power, love the Performance Blue and I doubt the insurance was that much more.
I did buy a C5 Z06 because it was the only variant with 405hp so was a worthwhile boost over the 350hp standard car.
With the Mustang, I specifically didn't want a GT500 which looked better but was so much heavier and lardier that the handling suffered but it did mean I had to buy a GT and modify it to exceed the GT500's power/weight advantage which I still wanted.
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th February 12:30
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